To think that the information we are getting about Wayne Couzens highlights how far men will go to protect other men?

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

I've always felt uncomfortable about Male judges issuing paltry sentences to Male sexual offenders, on the occasions it does happen.

And now it is emerging how disgusting WCs behaviour has been, knowingly, throughout his time in the police force.

Men (I'll add the old NAMALT here) protect and justify the actions of other men, in the main.

Is this because they themselves are depraved and guilty of similar thoughts or even actions? Or is it some sort of "brotherhood" thing? Could it be that they just want to keep the power they have as a group?

Feels like women are never going to win (and by win I mean, be treated as an equal).

MN - I have specifically put this in AIBU. I do not wish for this to be moved to Feminism.

@QuentinBunbury

Cressida Dick of the met really is Teflon coated I don't see things improving with her at the helm Nope. Not having this. Cressida Dick is one of very very few women who reach this kind of position. I've never read or seen anything that makes me think she's dodgy in any way. It's pure misogyny to suggest she shouldn't have that job

In fact I think

Given that she was all over the news recently for the corruption thing.

To say it's pure misogyny is an unconscious bias thing?

She's a woman. Women can be fucking awful.

She's a woman in charge of an org known for having massive issues. And still they continue. She disagrees with reports etc about problems and that's that.

She's a woman at the top of a well known very sexist org. Maybe she has fought against the attitudes and changed them and etc. Or maybe she knows not to rock the boat/ doesn't like other women very much.

Tbh, I can't think of many cases of males committing serious sex crimes and sexually-motivated murders where there haven't been years of concerning or criminal behaviour beforehand. At first we're told this is a one-off occurrence that came out of the blue and everyone is in disbelief that this hard-working family man could do such a thing; and then all the previous incidents come out and you realise that this man could have been stopped. It's almost taboo to look for patterns and connections when it comes to male criminal offending.

The incident that always sticks out to me is when Colin Pitchfork asked a friend to take his D.N.A. test for him and the friend agreed. The women in that area were living under threat of their worst fears, but to the men it was just a triviality, an inconvenience, a matter for pub banter. I can't even get my head around the mindset that wouldn't even question why someone is asking you to take their D.N.A. test and not even care that it could lead to another schoolgirl being murdered.

I don't want to derail the thread, but I will never understand how Cressida Dick got that job after her role in the Jean Charles de Menezes killing. It feels like there are some institutions that only allow employees to fall upwards.

Where's the prosecution for assault?

@NiceGerbil re. that case on the train, prior to the tribunal that got him fired he was found not guilty of sexual assault in court.

I assume

She understands her paymasters and what they want
She understands that as a woman that may act in her favour with the public (stereotypes about womenl/ people wanting women to be better represented) - as seen on this very thread! And maybe that was part of why she got it
And/ or she is totally old school in her views about policing and police culture and she makes sure all through the chain know she is onside...

Guesses obv..

She is teflon and she's just. More than awful.

I am not at all surprised that 'low level' sex offences are not of interest

I've lived with this force most of my life. I have no fucking idea what they do tbh.

They don't patrol on foot ever
They don't patrol in cars hardly
They don't come out for a number of very common crimes
They respond differently according to which area reporter is in (personal experience)
They get much more excited about deciding the reporter has done something dodgy than the actual report (experience X 2 not sex offences)

They are good at things like.

Cheering the NHS on London bridge in a large group for photo ops. Photographs showed large breach covid rules. So what? They said.

And recently. Putting on a massive show of squillions of armed officers all over and around London bridge. After the terrorist attack. Where the terrorist was caught and restrained by.... Members of the public...

@Wanttocry

Where's the prosecution for assault?

@NiceGerbil re. that case on the train, prior to the tribunal that got him fired he was found not guilty of sexual assault in court.

Was he? Oh bloody hell. Even with the witnesses?!

I'll look it up. Thanks.

Thanks wanttocry.

'A Metropolitan Police officer has been cleared of raping a woman and sexually assaulting another.

Carl Blood, 37, from Luton, was accused of raping a woman he met online on a first date and sexually assaulting another woman on a late night train.

He pleaded not guilty, saying both had consented, and was cleared by a jury at Luton Crown Court earlier.'

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-41610543

Well. Interesting.

Anyway.

I think the consensus is roughly

The police officer who kidnapped raped and murdered had multiple reports of sex offences that were not... Handled/ investigated

His behaviour was clearly escalating and the Macdonald's thing should have sounded alarm bells when reported- and they had his car reg

This pattern is not unusual

It's well known that flashers escalate

This means that when the crime that they get caught for has happened, there will be some, probably loads of women he has sexually offended against.

The idea that 'low level' sex offences. In society generally and reflected in the police. Are trivial. Is concerning. The fact it's non contact(flashing) is often cited. The law was based on property crime and then the sort of violence men commit and are vulnerable to. The sort of crime that really impacts women and girls is trivial in that model. No harm done...

Women esp feminists have been fighting for a very very long time to improve things.

If anyone has a different view do say! It's a bit presumptuous to sum up for a whole thread!

And the big question

What the fuck can we do?
Any ideas?

Jesus Christ @IdblowJonSnow don't want to derail, but your comment about black like matter - you are aware some of us on this site are not white right?? Some of us are women, and brown, of you can fathom that. Wow.

Agree on WC op, men cover for each other. And I think sometimes the oppression of the patriarchy means even men who are no like WC think behaviour like flashing and harrasment is normal for some men, even if they themselves don't do it. They prob don't think they can speak out. Patriarchy has a lot to answer for.

That should say black lives matter in my previous post

Not always police that the problem.
Not enough people care properly about violence against women and you have to be the right type of victim to get help. Part of the problem cos makes violent men more confident so should be help for all victims. Media make big fuss about this case but 2 of us killed a week by partner or ex partners. Not enough help to leave. Nowhere safe for some of us to go. My situation trying to get help worse psychologically than the violence. Feels abusive seeing adverts saying to get help when reality so bad. Feel physically sick about it. Violating and humiliating telling places about being serious violence and abuse and getting shrugs and told to just leave or call police without helping you leave. Can't leave with nowhere safe to go. Was in a refuge and had to go back after as nowhere safe to go on to. Domestic abuse support depends on where you live and if bad in your area you get no help. Was given someone who kept telling me to make a homeless application. I did that and the council breaking the law refusing to accept it without police evidence. I have no recent police evidence but they had refuge and social services evidence. Council tells me not enough evidence and tells me to apply somewhere else. Nobody to help me against them so only option is to wait and see if I'm attacked again so I have evidence. Feel traumatised from trying to get help and feel sick everytime media talks about violence against women pretending to care. Be easier to cope with if was honesty.

Nosafe that sounds horrendous.

You are right about society not actually caring.

The other things all flow from this.

Taxpayer money will not be spent on things that society in general isn't interested in.

So you get police not interested, schools not reporting girls being attacked in school, prosecutions in cases with loads of evidence not going forward, and underfunding of services etc to help victims of 'interpersonal' aka domestic violence / sexual violence committed by men against women and children. Rape support, refuges have funding slashed etc etc.

This thread makes me want to cry. What the fuck do we do to keep ourselves safe? Why would men change their behaviour when it suits them for it to stay this way? Where are footballers taking the proverbial knee to protect women?

I can't find a post from jonsnow on the thread.

I keep not being able to find posts referenced by others very strange.

@CrackOnOrGoHome

This thread makes me want to cry. What the fuck do we do to keep ourselves safe? Why would men change their behaviour when it suits them for it to stay this way? Where are footballers taking the proverbial knee to protect women?

I know it's shit.

And we can't protect ourselves really that's the problem.

But it makes people happy to think well she shouldn't have done X etc etc. They can put it out of their minds.

This is really appealling to lots of women and girls because it's a massive thing to face up to.

Was lucky and got a refuge place but problem was after refuge. Been horrible week trying again. I know the council I applied to breaking the law by not accepting my homeless application but what can I do. People get angry with me for speaking about it but people can talk about problems with police so also need to know about the other problems cos how can women get help if everybody thinks it's ok. Sorry for posting. Had bad experiences this week with the places like councils.

@NiceGerbil

If anyone has a different view do say! It's a bit presumptuous to sum up for a whole thread!

And the big question

What the fuck can we do?
Any ideas?

Can we organise protests or contacting MP's en masse to ask for transparent, clear steps that they propose to take to prevent such awful acts from occurring again?

Make a big push for crimes against women to be taken seriously and have stonger preventative measures in place to make us safer?

All good ideas.

These things have been happening for years though.

I think a novel approach is needed. Or just getting so many women active in protesting etc etc that it becomes too time consuming to drop.

Metoo, nothing happened.
Warboys. Total police fuck up then were going to release him. Which was a CPS fuckup.

Upskirting not illegal till recently and that took a hell of a fight.

Rape stats - charged- appalling.

Increasing push to get anon for those accused even after charge.

Recent defence of rough sex being used all the time and accepted by judges etc. Needed a change in law to stop it.

Recent thing with girls in school getting sexually assaulted raped in huge numbers. Schools not acting. Police not called. Ditto universities etc.

Rotherham etc big outcry victims treated terribly in different ways over the years. Still going on apparently. The gangs.

How the fuck we change society to. Want change rather than saying oh terrible after. And then nothing changes. Dunno...

I think the police are the start.

Genuine change. More women. Yes they can be awful but overall more interested than men. Yes some men are interested. Have to put that or will get told off.

Get women's groups in. Training. Carefully pick officers to handle this. Maybe get victims who are ok with it to tell their stories.

Encouraging reporting of the sort of awful things we know are said about sex crime reporters.

Come down really hard on those in the police who commit offences like coercing vulnerable women into sex, sexist abuse of colleagues etc etc etc. Investigate thoroughly and fast. Not taking years.

In fact they need to root out the whole culture.

Misogyny, homophobia. Classism. Assumptions about victims and those accused based on jobs position in society etc.

Racism here in London has been and continues to be a massive issue.

It's massive. As a bog standard person I wouldn't know where to start.

And loads of stuff from victims spells large that criticism is not listened to or acted on. It's defence mode.

@NiceGerbil

I can't find a post from jonsnow on the thread.

I keep not being able to find posts referenced by others very strange.

It was a long way up. I missed it at first too.

Every single copper involved in covering this up committed perjury and they ALL deserve some kind of sentence even if its suspended.

Its the only way that society sets an example that those involved in law enforcement don't get a free pass on lying. '

How this gets handled now tells us how senior police, judges, and politicians take these crimes against women.

But you are right for too long men - and some women - have been covering for vile men and its taking a nasty toll on the world we live in.

Where are footballers taking the proverbial knee to protect women?

What the hell has the BLM demo got to do with women getting abused.?? This is far too serious to be playing one group off against the other.

Let's get this straight. There's racism AND there's misogyny and some women unfortunately get both. Imagine that!

In case you haven't figured it out its ALL hatred and until we start speaking up on BOTH these problems its not going to get much better for either groups.

I find so many of both sexs make excuses for these men, although as a result of a patrarchal culture. I know a man who continously strangles, beats and stalks women but hes 'nice' so when I bring this up Im met with blank moronic looks. He will kill a woman one day and we will have to listen to the same 'so suprised/such a nice guy' bullshit from moral cowards.

It's about making a public stance. Which football teams taking the knee and wearing the rainbow, and calling for 'inclusive-ness' is. Inclusive usually meaning 'trans rights.' Footballers should be fighting for women's rights in sport, not for 'inclusivity' in its current usage of meaning 'women, men are in your sport now, get over it.'.

More than taking the knee, Pride rainbows and promotions are EVERYWHERE atm. E.g, Transport for London has massive rainbow billboards denouncing violence against people with all the protected characteristics apart from, you've guessed it, sex. They have 'gender identity' instead.
When of course the most vulnerable group to being attacked on public transport is women and girls. Throwing women under the bus (pardon the pun).