Was neighbour or myself BU?

[NeighbourWoes]

We live in a building of flats which have communal gardens front and back. The back is much bigger and more for recreational use and the front is more of a flower bed type garden but still a decent size. To get to the back garden we have to walk around a street and use a key so it's not very convenient. Myself, DH and DS (2) live on the third floor and since lockdown we got into the habit of watering the flowers in the front garden. This was initiated by the communal gardener who got DS a watering can etc.

We do it probably 4 or 5 times a week, for 10 minutes a time. DS likes to fill up the watering can from the hose pipe and it's a sedate activity where we enjoy looking at the flowers but by no means make much noise or anything like that.

The hosepipe is directly by one of the ground floor flats windows. This ground floor flat doesn't have direct access to the communal garden but their window from the kitchen/ living room looks out directly onto it. This flat is occupied by a single older lady in her late 70s and we have always had a bit of a chat and been very friendly and she chats about DS etc.

This morning DS and I were in the garden for approximately 10 minutes just after 8am. We thought no more of it. This evening as we were coming in the neighbour came out of her flat very angry and exasperated and said that this morning was ridiculous because she was trying to have her breakfast and look out of her window and we were "right there". (I did notice this morning that she shut her curtains as we came into the garden.) She asked us to stop playing in that part of the garden but from the off was quite aggressive. I said I didn't ever realise this was an issue at all and she barked "I'm telling you right now it is!" She said it was ridiculous that we were so close to her window.

The issue is that's where the hosepipe is for filling up the watering can plus all the plant pots. Previously she has always come out and thanked DS for watering her pots saying it saved her a job so I have no idea where this came from.

I said to her that I was sorry she was upset but it's a communal space and she was very agitated. DH then arrived home and asked what the problem was and she was shrieking a bit and he told her "it won't happen again", but I'm annoyed as it's not her right to tell her we can't use that part of the garden.

I walked away and got quite emotional because all during lockdown I've struggled living in a third floor flat with no private garden and this is one thing DS looks forward to each day and asks to do, and this previously friendly neighbour suddenly became hostile and has spoilt that for him.

Who is being unreasonable?

OP, you’ve asked IYABU and the vast majority have said ‘yes, due to the time’. And yet you’re persisting with the ‘I am not. Why can’t she close her curtains?!’ line.

Have you considered that in this instance you may actually be being extremely unreasonable?

Go later. It’s communal - why should she be the one to compromise?

@ArthurApples

THIS: 'YABU to use the garden in front of her window as a playground at 8am. It’s not like the flowers need watering (recent rainfall plus actual gardener), so you’re not maintaining the garden - you’re simply entertaining your child next to her window.' Saying thanks once out if courtesy doesnt mean go 4-5 times a week and stand around by her windows.

She's entitled to use the garden to entertain her child, at whatever time she chooses, and entitled to use it as a playground if she wishes - it's as much her garden as any one else occupying the flats.

That said, it sounds to me like she is being very considerate of other residents, especially on the ground floor so not sure why you are being so agressive!

You shouldnt have to, but can you get a hose extender to set up the tap a little further away from her window. We have one and it has a metal bit that sticks in the ground, a short ish leader hose to go back to the tap on the wall and then its own tap. You leave the wall tap on and just control it with the extender tap. You just have to make sure it fits really snuggly (it might need a rubber washer) and doesnt drip.

Is there a chance that her previous nice comment might have been we way of trying to suggest that your presence outside her window had been noticed? And that she really lost it when you started doing thai basically every day, and then early in the morning?

I would absolutely hate that if i were her. There’s a huge difference between thinking you own a communal garden vs deciding to make the area directly outside someone’s house into a child’s play area. It’s not really appropriate if it’s going to become a constant thing, and early in the morning or late at night. You might have startled her in a state of undress, she might be worried that you’ll start to wake her.

Use the garden more! Just not right at someone’s window. Of course technically you could in theory stand there and peer in, but when sharing a space it’s better to be considerate

@ArthurApples

THIS: 'YABU to use the garden in front of her window as a playground at 8am. It’s not like the flowers need watering (recent rainfall plus actual gardener), so you’re not maintaining the garden - you’re simply entertaining your child next to her window.' Saying thanks once out if courtesy doesnt mean go 4-5 times a week and stand around by her windows.

Of course they're maintaining the garden. Watering plants 5 times a week is no joke and even the gardener and shreiky neighbour appreciate it.

OP, I don't think YABU, it's not her personal garden or her tap and she should have raised any concerns politely.

Don't let this put you off, it sounds like a lovely routine with your ds. I would personally keep doing it and if you did want to do it in the morning, maybe go after 9am.

And you don't have to talk to someone who shrieks at you, you can safely ignore her in future.

If there's a gardener then its a task tha doesn't need doing though right by someone's windows. Its new, not everyone likes change or proximity to others, even if you do live communally. 4-5 times a week is a lot, every other day she's got you stood right on her front. Use the rest of the garden, no reason to keep at it if its winding her up, there's loads of nice little jobs and activities you could do in a garden with a child thats not that. Its not like you'll ever have a problem with someone hanging round outside your windows on the 3rd floor, sharing the space goes both ways. Can you get a sand pit/water table etc for further down the garden and play there instead? Some furniture, table and chairs etc, use the rest of it instead.

@NeighbourWoes

Thanks *@Mummyford* yes I did feel blindsided, I thought she was coming out for a friendly chat, and her tone was that of someone who has begged someone to stop doing something for ages and has been ignored. Certainly not a polite first request.

I understand that there is etiquette required in communal areas although technically we aren't doing anything wrong. Plus she has uninterrupted enjoyment of the garden for probably 22 - 23 hours out of 24 (I am serious when I say we are there for 10 minutes) so is it any more unreasonable to ask her to close her curtains if she doesn't want to see people, than to ask people not to use the garden?

The thing is, there are two big gardens for you to use. I’m sure she found the first time you watered plants cute, but if I saw kids right outside my window every day, at all times of the day I would think it’s becoming intrusive. Might be time to develop a new routine, or at least just be more sensitive

Most older people are ready for morning tea at that time.
Given the situation I would have a word with the gardener , tell him what happened and see what he says.

If there were teenagers constantly hanging out directly outside your window in a shared garden, you’d have a problem with it.

This is nothing near as bad, but the same principle applies—yes a communal garden, but that doesn’t mean you can constantly use an area in a way that causes distress to the resident just inside.

[quote NeighbourWoes]@notangelinajolie they're not her pots no they are organised by the gardener who also lives in the flats but has overall responsibility for maintaining the garden. He is the one who encourages DS.[/quote]
Oh I see. The lady just thinks they are hers. In that case speak to the gardener and ask if you can move the pots away from her vision so that you don't disturb her and bring water down with you. And as for the communal flower beds - you are perfectly entitled to enjoy them. However, I do still think standing right outside her window is inconsiderate, no matter what time of the day.

I wouldn't want people right outside my window at 8.00am when I was having my breakfast. She probably was just a bit worked up. If I was you, I'd stick to afternoons. I'm sure she likes to see your little boy then. We can all be a bit grumpy when we wake up.

I think it's purely a timing thing. Also, like many older people she has probably become a creature of habit and probably has a well-established breakfast routine that she does not like to have disrupted.

She's in the wrong. It's communal space.

When you buy or rent a ground floor flat you have to suck up the presence of neighbours in the adjacent spaces.

Your H was wrong to assure her you wouldn't do it again. I would carry on watering but after breakfast time.

Look, virtually everyone on this thread is telling you 8AM is too early to be outside her window and you are just completely ignoring it. She was probably pottering round in her nightwear having a leisurely breakfast and obviously not nice to have 2 people right at her bloody window. I'm not surprised she was pissed off. Just do it in the afternoon as usual which she was previously happy with and have some respect for her privacy.

Far too early to be outside her window. You should have been more considerate.

As someone noted earlier you do are ignoring all the posters who say 8am is too early. It really is - have some common courtesy!

8am right outside of her window is too early.

8am is not too early to be in a communal garden , if she doesn’t like it she should get blinds or curtains and keep them pulled or move to somewhere where she has a private garden . It’s hardly like the OP and her son were banging on her windows and staring in at her .

Carry on at your normal time and the situation will be likely to calm back down.

@TwigTheWonderKid

I think it's purely a timing thing. Also, like many older people she has probably become a creature of habit and probably has a well-established breakfast routine that she does not like to have disrupted.

Haha!! That's so true!

YABU. 8am is too early to disturb neighbours. Also, even though the garden is communal you should not use the space directly outside her window. I'm surprised this is not written out in your lease, it is for my building.

I'd explain to the gardener and ask if it's possible for the pots to be moved over a little so that you're not outside her window. If the tap is there, then maybe you can until the hose a bit and just very unobtrusively switch the tap on and then nip away to fill the can.

She needs to not live in a flat but 8am is too early, we have our own garden and 9am is the absolute earliest I’d ever let them out.

@Fiddliestofsticks

Of course you can use the garden anytime you like. But also, maybe be considerate about the fact that when you're using the hosepipe, you're right at her window. At 8am, she may have been in pyjamas for whatever.

As others have said, a communal garden requires give and take and understanding. You've said she has thanked your son in the past so she's been quite sweet to him and encouraged his little task. In return, you could not be right at her window early in the morning? Continue using the garden at that time; you absolutely can be out enjoying the morning sun. But just think about being in your kitchen in your pyjamas at 8am getting breakfast and people are standing literally right at your window. It is annoying.

And seriously, why are you saying myself?! It is not myself. It is me or I. It is almost never myself.

Just what was the point of the last couple of sentences here? The OP is now embarrassed and has to justify themselves because of your pedantry.

I speak as an English teacher and a logophile. Language should not be used to make others feel bad. It is a method of communication.