Was neighbour or myself BU?

[NeighbourWoes]

We live in a building of flats which have communal gardens front and back. The back is much bigger and more for recreational use and the front is more of a flower bed type garden but still a decent size. To get to the back garden we have to walk around a street and use a key so it's not very convenient. Myself, DH and DS (2) live on the third floor and since lockdown we got into the habit of watering the flowers in the front garden. This was initiated by the communal gardener who got DS a watering can etc.

We do it probably 4 or 5 times a week, for 10 minutes a time. DS likes to fill up the watering can from the hose pipe and it's a sedate activity where we enjoy looking at the flowers but by no means make much noise or anything like that.

The hosepipe is directly by one of the ground floor flats windows. This ground floor flat doesn't have direct access to the communal garden but their window from the kitchen/ living room looks out directly onto it. This flat is occupied by a single older lady in her late 70s and we have always had a bit of a chat and been very friendly and she chats about DS etc.

This morning DS and I were in the garden for approximately 10 minutes just after 8am. We thought no more of it. This evening as we were coming in the neighbour came out of her flat very angry and exasperated and said that this morning was ridiculous because she was trying to have her breakfast and look out of her window and we were "right there". (I did notice this morning that she shut her curtains as we came into the garden.) She asked us to stop playing in that part of the garden but from the off was quite aggressive. I said I didn't ever realise this was an issue at all and she barked "I'm telling you right now it is!" She said it was ridiculous that we were so close to her window.

The issue is that's where the hosepipe is for filling up the watering can plus all the plant pots. Previously she has always come out and thanked DS for watering her pots saying it saved her a job so I have no idea where this came from.

I said to her that I was sorry she was upset but it's a communal space and she was very agitated. DH then arrived home and asked what the problem was and she was shrieking a bit and he told her "it won't happen again", but I'm annoyed as it's not her right to tell her we can't use that part of the garden.

I walked away and got quite emotional because all during lockdown I've struggled living in a third floor flat with no private garden and this is one thing DS looks forward to each day and asks to do, and this previously friendly neighbour suddenly became hostile and has spoilt that for him.

Who is being unreasonable?

I agree with everyone else. 8am is too early to be pottering around. Also maybe 4-5 times a week might be a bit much?

Maybe go and speak to her to resolve it. Tell her you will stick with afternoon and that you'll keep away from her window.

Can't you use the back garden?

Yeah 8am a bit early but other than that crack on.

8am is too early - you say this is the first time she's done it, and also the first time you've been out that early. I think you've answered your own question.

@PinkiOcelot

Do you think she could have something going on? Start of dementia maybe? Just a thought as you say she’s previously been very friendly and talked to your ds about watering the garden.

Agree, she could have the start of dementia. Or she cluld just be pissed that you were out at 8am.

I would still water the plants but from 9am onwards.
It is not her private space.

Too early, op, too early. She was prob in her nighty sitting down to her toast and weetabix and felt uncomfortable. I would.

It might be the early time - if she was having her breakfast, perhaps she wasn’t properly dressed and felt a bit exposed with you in the communal garden outside her home. She may have felt her privacy had been invaded - potentially a big deal for an older lady.

I agree - you're fine and I'm sure nobody has a problem with you and your son but 8 is a bit early. I don't let my kids out into our private garden until after 9, just to give everyone else a chance to ease into the day, but I appreciate 8 can seem like lunchtime when you're up with a toddler!!

Can the tap be moved away from her window, then whoever is using the tap at whatever time of day would not disturb her.

As for suggestions to carry water from your third floor flat to the garden as well as supervise your little one at the same time, just ignore them!

I sort of experience this. Ground floor living room windows where people can pass directly by. It feels massively intrusive and I hate it (and I am moving after 3 years here). It’s really hard to explain - almost like somebody is stood with you in your room.

So, yeah. Perhaps compromise on more sociable hours and keep away from the window? And talk to her too.

If she used to be nice and is now becoming unpleasant,it could be the onset of dementia,common at the start of it,that people become spiteful.

On the other hand 8am is way to early.

THIS:
'YABU to use the garden in front of her window as a playground at 8am. It’s not like the flowers need watering (recent rainfall plus actual gardener), so you’re not maintaining the garden - you’re simply entertaining your child next to her window.'
Saying thanks once out if courtesy doesnt mean go 4-5 times a week and stand around by her windows.

I'd tend to side with you as you've not done anything wrong. 8am isn't really that early and she was up with her curtains open. Maybe you could just say ok, we won't water the plants quite so early in the future.....and get your DS to pick her a bunch to see how that goes down 🤣

Thanks @Mummyford yes I did feel blindsided, I thought she was coming out for a friendly chat, and her tone was that of someone who has begged someone to stop doing something for ages and has been ignored. Certainly not a polite first request.

I understand that there is etiquette required in communal areas although technically we aren't doing anything wrong. Plus she has uninterrupted enjoyment of the garden for probably 22 - 23 hours out of 24 (I am serious when I say we are there for 10 minutes) so is it any more unreasonable to ask her to close her curtains if she doesn't want to see people, than to ask people not to use the garden?

@ArthurApples we don't use the garden as a playground. Yes we exist in it, would you say any place a child is moving around in is a playground?

And no we don't think we are doing anyone a favour by watering the plants either.

[quote NeighbourWoes]@Fiddliestofsticks English isn't my first language sorry[/quote]
There's no need to apologise to her. The grammar police don't have any right to correct people on this board!

I would agree with others and say 8am is probably a bit early, but you’re fully entitled to use it as often as you want the rest of the time. It sounds like she thinks of it as her private view that you’re disturbing, but communal living doesn’t operate that way.

I’d be tempted to carry on doing exactly as you’ve been doing at a later time in the day snd remind her that it’s a communal space for everyone to use and enjoy. Don’t apologise for doing something you’re entitled to do (in a considerate way obviously).

Then do use the garden, if its big use it, go much further away from her flat and play in it, but not by her windows. She'll be much more aware of you being there than you are if her inside. You don't need to be doing a job like that so often. Maybe even get some pots of your own to tend to round the main entrance or something, sounds like she's fed up.

@NeighbourWoes

You seem quite defensive considering most people have said 8am is too early.
We have a private garden and I wouldn’t take my 2 year old into it to water flowers at 8am

Oh and that poster who made the ‘seriously, it’s not myself’ comment can do one.

That’s from myself.

@NeighbourWoes do you get that 8am might not be the best time to do this?

YANBU but I do think 8am is a tad early as she could be in her dressing gown etc not expecting people that early.

Ultimately though it’s her whose in the wrong. She doesn’t Ken the garden and she clearly only thinking about it from her point of view.

It was the same with my old neighbours. Use to moan about trees in next doors garden - that weren’t affecting them at all. Moan about cars parking even though again it never affected them.

They were mid to late 70’s and I used to think, surely at that age you’d be more chilled out moving in to what are likely to be your final years. Surely you’d want a straightforward stress less life as possible and realise how precious life is….

Low and behold she died a couple of years later and I thought I wonder if that will make him chill out more and focus on the things that important and not causing needles grief.

I'm in a housing association block of flats with a communal garden...however I'm on the first floor so I don't have access to the back garden. As well as the building I'm in, there's another block of flats on the left hand side...so making a 'L' shape. In total 4 ground floor flats have access to the back garden.

The occupant of the ground floor flat nearest to my windows is a woman in her 60s. Unfortunately she has a partner/boyfriend who has made my life a misery this spring/summer (and the last)...sometimes he will start doing DIY in the garden - hammering, sawing, drilling - from 7am in the morning! He also plays a ghetto blaster in the garden from that time, all bloody day, so freaking loud I can barely hear my own television. He acts like the garden is his own personal one, making quite large alterations to it, including cutting down a hedge in which birds were nesting last August. He's made a right hash of it, leaving stumps...it looks terrible. And he doesn't even live here! Sadly none of the tenants of the other 3 flats seem that interested in the garden at all. Unlike my previous flat, it seems that this housing association isn't responsible for the upkeep of the back gardens, only the front.

My housing officer is coming to visit me soon, and I plan on raising this with her. I'm not putting up with this nonsense from someone who doesn't even live here!

You need to keep the watering til the afternoon. Give your neighbour her privacy and quiet in the mornings.

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all, its a communal garden and you are entitled to be in it. She was already up and awake so not like you woke her up. I would just keep on doing what you have been doing and tell her not to be so selfish if she starts again!

If you don't feel comfortable doing that, then is it possible to buy some plant pots for another area in the garden and focus on those? Just a thought!

I think you're absolutely fine to do this, but not at 8am, it's a bit too early.

Can you leave it til after 10am?

I think the issue is the time, not the actual activity. It was a tad early OP.. Perhaps she just wanted to have her breakfast in peace. You didn't deserve the hostility from her, but it was a tad too early.