Page 5 | What do men even do?

dohdohdoh · 2021-07-05T18:42:02+00:00

Since having kids I look at men and think what do you even do?! What hurdles do they have in their life? I have a great partner and we try to make things 50:50 but I hate that: - Despite being in similar lines of work he earns more than me - I have had to take maternity leave because financially he earns more than me and it "makes sense" (so hasn't had to look after 2 under 3 for the last year, while he's at work) - That raising my children is literally worth no money in return (I don't get anything for the last 12 weeks of my 1 year of mat leave - yes I'm "lucky" to get something for the first 9 months) And basically all the other minor and major injustices of being a woman! I just can't help but think if once women give birth and society deemed men should then look after a baby for the next 12 months, they'd instantly demand full pay for the whole period and everyone would think, yes that's reasonable. But as women we should just be grateful for any morsels we can get. Sorry this is just a rant I guess but I can't believe its the 21st century and we are still screwed over. And now when I look at men I just think what do you even do? How much do you pull your weight at home? Who have you trampled on to get to where you are professionally? I judge them, I judge them harshly.

thepeopleversuswork · 06/07/2021 00:11

Mothers' commune anyone???

Hear fucking hear.

The more of these stories I hear the more grateful I am that I'm a single mother who never gave up work.

It's the domestic stuff that's the real killer here. By and large men have made peace with their womenfolk going out to work, even out-earning them. But even the really progressive ones - the ones who think they've drunk the feminist Kool Aid -- can't get their heads around actually pulling their weight with childcare and domestically.

And its a lose/lose: a man wealthier than you will expect you to play second fiddle and look after the domestic shit. A poorer one will expect you to look after the domestic shit and also take advantage of your bank balance.

I love men as much as the next woman and I'm very glad they exist but they serve no purpose as part of the domestic setup. I wouldn't share a home or a bank account with one again if he had a magic golden cock and a bank balance in the billions. No upside to it whatsoever.

HmmmmmmInteresting · 06/07/2021 00:15

I wouldn't share a home or a bank account with one again if he had a magic golden cock and a bank balance in the billions. No upside to it whatsoever.

I was with you, even agreeing I'd never live with a man again until the magic cock and billionaire bank balance bit 🤣

HmmmmmmInteresting · 06/07/2021 00:19

@PutBabyInTheCorner

What do you mean by you own half your house? That's a bit of a weird flex

GetDownWithTheCygent · 06/07/2021 00:20

I think the worlds fine completely bonkers, back in the day, the man used to work and the women used to stay home and look after the kids BUT now it's unaffordable. I work and have a DD and so does my partner. I would like nothing more than to not have to go to work, not worry about the bills, juggling everything. I would love to stay home, spend time with my daughter and look after the home, no stress. This might sound controversial but things were better before, men had their role as the bread winner and women had their role as the nurturing type. Society is so mixed up now days

thepeopleversuswork · 06/07/2021 00:22

This might sound controversial but things were better before, men had their role as the bread winner and women had their role as the nurturing type. Society is so mixed up now days

Yep and most women had no money of their own, very little freedom to do anything without permission from men and were completely trapped if the marriage broke down. No thanks very much. I'll take my chances with the rat-race.

joystir59 · 06/07/2021 00:23

I really am surprised that so many women want children when to have a child in our patriarchal society disadvantages women so much. It just seems like a pretty thankless hard slog.

joystir59 · 06/07/2021 00:26

And why in earth do women want to share households with men? Or when they do cohabit why does the man get to be head of the household? Men are generally fairly shit at running families.

joystir59 · 06/07/2021 00:27

Women need to start putting their own needs first.

GetDownWithTheCygent · 06/07/2021 00:27

@thepeopleversuswork

This might sound controversial but things were better before, men had their role as the bread winner and women had their role as the nurturing type. Society is so mixed up now days

Yep and most women had no money of their own, very little freedom to do anything without permission from men and were completely trapped if the marriage broke down. No thanks very much. I'll take my chances with the rat-race.

That's why you should choose a good husband with prospects, who will respect and care for you. So many people get divorced these days, having children with 2 or 3 different men, it's insane, nothing is sacred anymore.

thepeopleversuswork · 06/07/2021 00:28

@joystir59

And why in earth do women want to share households with men? Or when they do cohabit why does the man get to be head of the household? Men are generally fairly shit at running families.

That will be because for millennia society has been telling women they are failures if they aren't shacked up with a bloke. I must say I find it cheering to see how the penny is dropping for so many.

Rosieandjim04 · 06/07/2021 00:29

I thought this, men do what they want my OH will go out on his bike before sorting DD out or do some other hobbies. We have a cleaner as OH won't do any he will rarely cook either unless I go on strike it's his mother's fault because she's pandered him , she still treats him like a little boy now.

thepeopleversuswork · 06/07/2021 00:29

That's why you should choose a good husband with prospects, who will respect and care for you. So many people get divorced these days, having children with 2 or 3 different men, it's insane, nothing is sacred anymore.

Sorry, silly me. I must have missed the "I'm a feckless twat" tattoos on their foreheads. Must try harder . Oh wait! I don't need to. Because I've got my own money, thanks.

AlexaShutUp · 06/07/2021 00:30

@GetDownWithTheCygent

I think the worlds fine completely bonkers, back in the day, the man used to work and the women used to stay home and look after the kids BUT now it's unaffordable. I work and have a DD and so does my partner. I would like nothing more than to not have to go to work, not worry about the bills, juggling everything. I would love to stay home, spend time with my daughter and look after the home, no stress. This might sound controversial but things were better before, men had their role as the bread winner and women had their role as the nurturing type. Society is so mixed up now days

Yeah, except things weren't better for the women who didn't want that. My mum fucking hated being a SAHM.

I imagine that there were quite a lot of men who weren't too keen on the idea of being the sole breadwinner either.

AlexaShutUp · 06/07/2021 00:33

That's why you should choose a good husband with prospects, who will respect and care for you. So many people get divorced these days, having children with 2 or 3 different men, it's insane, nothing is sacred anymore.

Are you being ironic, @GetDownWithTheCygent? I can't quite tell.

Recessed · 06/07/2021 00:34

I agree. I often say I'd love parenting if I was a dad! It's pretty rubbish for far too many women. YANBU. Having children turned me into a rip roaring feminist. To my shame I was the opposite of that before DC.

slightlysnippy · 06/07/2021 00:48

Hopefully with more girls going to university, and more equality in pay our daughters can make a more informed choice with their partners on who does the bulk of the child care.

I had a better job than my husband when we had our two kids, so decided as most of his wages went to nursery expenses it was more sensible for him to be a stay at home dad, we have quite a small house because I want to retire at 55 so not willing to take on the burden of a large mortgage, so our lives are not driven by money, we both like how our lives a set up.

So there is hope that our daughters can have a choice.

Jellybabiesforbreakfast · 06/07/2021 00:52

It would be interesting to calculate the cost of the services the typical mum would have to buy in so she could live the life of the typical dad.

Meggymoo777 · 06/07/2021 00:53

@Draineddraineddrained

On the one hand of course there will be tons of people piling in to say "it's your choooooice" - to have kids, to have them with a man who earns more than you, not to make shared parental leave a condition of having kids with him, etc etc etc. And all the women who will blame you for "allowing" your DP not to pull his weight.

But fundamentally yes, being the childbearing sex fucks us over fundamentally in the finance and independence stakes in a capitalist society where our main value is as units of economic production. Indeed you could say the whole patriarchal shit show is as a result of this as it boils down, basically, to men wanting to control women as much as possible so they can be absolutely sure she bears their offspring and no other male's.

And yes, if I'm absolutely honest, the older I get the more I think men are by far the weaker sex - less adaptable, less resourceful, less articulate, less perceptive, less collaborative, less loving, lower pain thresholds, more selfish. And absolutely crippled by their own emotional illiteracy, which turns any complex emotions they can't handle into the blunt instrument that is anger.

Mothers' commune anyone???

Not only do I love the discussion the OP has opened around this but I really do love this post and point of view. We are always seen as the 'weaker sex' 🙄 But you've explained so eloquently how this is just complete BS, thank you.

Meggymoo777 · 06/07/2021 00:54

@Draineddraineddrained and Yes, please send details of the mothers' commune... in packing my bags as we speak!

SunflowerGiraffe · 06/07/2021 00:55

@thepeopleversuswork

That's why you should choose a good husband with prospects, who will respect and care for you. So many people get divorced these days, having children with 2 or 3 different men, it's insane, nothing is sacred anymore.

Sorry, silly me. I must have missed the "I'm a feckless twat" tattoos on their foreheads. Must try harder . Oh wait! I don't need to. Because I've got my own money, thanks.

This! WTAF, are these posters being ironic? So fucking weird!!!!

slightlysnippy · 06/07/2021 00:56

Also to add to my last post, I also think to see change we need to have work places that truly do no view men who go part time to look after the kids negatively. I only know one man who did this and he happened to lose his job in our last round of redundancies, not sure if just a coincidence.

CrumpetyTea · 06/07/2021 00:56

But a lot of that was your choice?
I earned more than my partner so after maternity leave (and I only took the paid leave so 6 months)- I went back to work full time and he stayed at home - alternatively we could have put DS in childcare.
Its not ideal (he's a lazy sod ) - and even being off for 6 months did impact my career and i do feel I missed out on a lot- i hadn't realised how much i'd want to be with my child- I also feel that the working life is set up for people who don't want /have childcare responsibilities- the chaps at work were happy working late/doing overseas travel etc- whereas I wasn't and again that impacts career/earning. In part that was my decision but it also wasn't helped by the fact that the guys at work generally had SAHW who were shouldering the childcare burden. If both parents were working the balance is different.

SunflowerGiraffe · 06/07/2021 00:57

How about encouraging girls to grow up to be women with their own prospects, not trying to land a husband with prospects like some pathetic feeble helpless woman with no rights from the 17th century??

SunflowerGiraffe · 06/07/2021 01:00

@GetDownWithTheCygent

I think the worlds fine completely bonkers, back in the day, the man used to work and the women used to stay home and look after the kids BUT now it's unaffordable. I work and have a DD and so does my partner. I would like nothing more than to not have to go to work, not worry about the bills, juggling everything. I would love to stay home, spend time with my daughter and look after the home, no stress. This might sound controversial but things were better before, men had their role as the bread winner and women had their role as the nurturing type. Society is so mixed up now days

Jesus. Yeah, let's go back to being totally financially dependent on men who may or may not be kind, or let us access money, or be abusive, and if it turns out badly have no way to extricate ourselves from that situation. Women can do all domestic drudgery and have no positions of power or influence in society, that'll work out well for our daughters eh? Great plan!

Fucking hell. Are you for real?

SunflowerGiraffe · 06/07/2021 01:02

Oh and doom children to live with abusive men also as their mothers can't leave. I am actually astonished that some people want to actively undo the little progress that's been made towards equality.

Have you actually read any history about what life was like for most women when we were considered property, couldn't hold assets, couldn't vote etc?