What do men even do?

[dohdohdoh]

Since having kids I look at men and think what do you even do?!

What hurdles do they have in their life?

I have a great partner and we try to make things 50:50 but I hate that:

• Despite being in similar lines of work he earns more than me
• I have had to take maternity leave because financially he earns more than me and it "makes sense" (so hasn't had to look after 2 under 3 for the last year, while he's at work)
• That raising my children is literally worth no money in return (I don't get anything for the last 12 weeks of my 1 year of mat leave - yes I'm "lucky" to get something for the first 9 months)

And basically all the other minor and major injustices of being a woman!

I just can't help but think if once women give birth and society deemed men should then look after a baby for the next 12 months, they'd instantly demand full pay for the whole period and everyone would think, yes that's reasonable. But as women we should just be grateful for any morsels we can get.

Sorry this is just a rant I guess but I can't believe its the 21st century and we are still screwed over. And now when I look at men I just think what do you even do? How much do you pull your weight at home? Who have you trampled on to get to where you are professionally? I judge them, I judge them harshly.

I used to think like this .There are biological differences men are not responsible for.I am currently pregnant and used to think it was unfair that I had to stay at home (maternity leave) yet now that I'm expecting it would break my heart if my partner said he will do it.He is supporting me and taking care of the house.He has mentioned before he'd like more time to bond with our child when its born but by law he doesn't have that option.So its not fair on him either.Life isn't fair but thinking its not fair only on women is nonsense.I have a wonderful partner and listen to him and his life journey and it hasn't been easy either.Perhaps more understanding from both genders is needed as nobody has it easy.

This!100 percent agree

@Aggy35

I used to think like this .There are biological differences men are not responsible for.I am currently pregnant and used to think it was unfair that I had to stay at home (maternity leave) yet now that I'm expecting it would break my heart if my partner said he will do it.He is supporting me and taking care of the house.He has mentioned before he'd like more time to bond with our child when its born but by law he doesn't have that option.So its not fair on him either.Life isn't fair but thinking its not fair only on women is nonsense.I have a wonderful partner and listen to him and his life journey and it hasn't been easy either.Perhaps more understanding from both genders is needed as nobody has it easy.

Life is hard. Some people just want to be victims.

Women look to marry up more than men.
The Regency period has sent a carrier pigeon to say it wants its attitudes back.

@Aggy35

I used to think like this .There are biological differences men are not responsible for.I am currently pregnant and used to think it was unfair that I had to stay at home (maternity leave) yet now that I'm expecting it would break my heart if my partner said he will do it.He is supporting me and taking care of the house.He has mentioned before he'd like more time to bond with our child when its born but by law he doesn't have that option.So its not fair on him either.Life isn't fair but thinking its not fair only on women is nonsense.I have a wonderful partner and listen to him and his life journey and it hasn't been easy either.Perhaps more understanding from both genders is needed as nobody has it easy.

Are you pregnant with your first? If so, I don't think you'll quite appreciate the inequality until you're on mat leave.

And yes I think it's appalling that men only get two weeks paternity leave. I don't think the solution is that women should go back to work straight away. I think the Swedish approach of three years paid between both parents to spilt how they see fit is a great model. Although costly to the state, what a great start to a child's life to have both parents able to look after it.

@Aggy35

This!100 percent agree

What are you agreeing with? I hope this isn't a slip up where you forgot to change your username just so you could agree with your own comment?

@dohdohdoh whilst we dont get 3 years like the swedish, we do get shared parental leave that can be split between parents. We are TTC at the moment and I earn considerably more than my partner. Therefore we plan for me to take the first 6 months off as I get 12 weeks full by then statutory. I will then go back to work as we need my income and my partner will take the rest of the leave. After that I will drop a Friday and he will drop a monday at work so we both are working 4 day weeks. The other 3 days my mum, my dad and his mum have offered to take a day each. People settle into what has always happened but you can mix it up nowadays. Also, people all seem to say that men earn so much more but if I look at my friendship group I'd say 70% of couples the women are the higher earners.

I'm absolutely not denying there is a problem but I think society as a whole are very stuck in their ways but men and women can challenge that.

[quote IndiaMay]@dohdohdoh whilst we dont get 3 years like the swedish, we do get shared parental leave that can be split between parents. We are TTC at the moment and I earn considerably more than my partner. Therefore we plan for me to take the first 6 months off as I get 12 weeks full by then statutory. I will then go back to work as we need my income and my partner will take the rest of the leave. After that I will drop a Friday and he will drop a monday at work so we both are working 4 day weeks. The other 3 days my mum, my dad and his mum have offered to take a day each. People settle into what has always happened but you can mix it up nowadays. Also, people all seem to say that men earn so much more but if I look at my friendship group I'd say 70% of couples the women are the higher earners.

I'm absolutely not denying there is a problem but I think society as a whole are very stuck in their ways but men and women can challenge that.[/quote]
Yes but generally as in our case, if you forgo maternity leave, shared parental leave is much less generous policy. This is why the up take of it is so poor.

If we had taken the shared parental leave offered by our employers, we wouldn't have been able to afford the time off.

Great that in your circle most of the women you know earn more. My mother did too (but still had to do all the childcare, cooking, washing etc. And had to return back to work after 12 weeks or else would have be fired, this was the 80s).

In my circle of friends I can only think of one who earns about £2k more per year than her DH, and one who earns exactly the same. The rest l would say earn at least 10-15k less than their partners if not more. All university educated.

All the shared parental leave examples I’ve seen are pretty much on par with the maternity leave from the same company. My dh is not at my company but he gets as much paid parental leave (4 months) as I do at mine.

Why the difference? Women - never. Men - sometimes. Why?

Men earning more and pooling their finances with a woman, when the woman has taken time out for childbirth and child rearing, and taken a hit on her capacity to earn seems entirely fair to me.

What would be the equivalent for women pooling with men?

@FinallyHere

Why the difference? Women - never. Men - sometimes. Why?

Men earning more and pooling their finances with a woman, when the woman has taken time out for childbirth and child rearing, and taken a hit on her capacity to earn seems entirely fair to me.

What would be the equivalent for women pooling with men?

Exactly. People saying there's no difference are missing the point. The partner who takes time off work to take children (which in the vast majority of cases is the woman), is massively damaging her earning potential, career prospects, financial security and possibly mental and social wellbeing.

The person who continues earning has a moral and social obligation to support that person in my view.

If that financial handicap isn't there there is literally no reason to pool finances and a high-paid woman shouldn't be subsidising a low paid man unless there are extenuating circumstances like illness or disabiity unless there are children involved.

These financial discrepancies don't exist in a vacuum - they take place as a direct result of the damage childbearing does to a woman's economic wellbeing.

I think it also depends on your earning difference and tax band. Also, not all jobs have friendly breast pumping facilities (if women choose to breastfeed for longer).

But paid paternity leave is improving in many big companies (up from the 2 wks about 7-8yrs ago and non-existent before). And I hope flexible working will mean that even if men don’t take shared parental, they can go down to 4 days per week after or agree to take more of the burden of child sickness and do less overtime to help their wives get back on track with their career.

It can make financial sense because of tax system and greater promotion opportunities for more junior staff - so we are aiming for this approach. People can’t help it if their partners turn out to be bad parents, but if DH didn’t fulfil certain red lines in childcare/housework, I’d make a big push to curtail his rest and hobby time.

OP it sounds like you need more support but personally I don't recognise your experience. I earn over £10k a year more than my partner. I earned more before we had children and it surprises me that even before children most women don't earn as much or more than their other halves. It's almost like they're waiting to get married and have a family.
You say you judge men harshly and wonder who they've trampled on. Do you feel the same about women? I come from a very poor family with a mother that didn't work but I have never felt disadvantaged in my career because I was a woman.
Career women make the same sacrifices as men who have careers and sahm make the same sacrifices as sahd. I took 6 months maternity leave with all 3 kids, I breastfed them but my partner does just as much childcare and domestic chores as me. I've never felt that I should do more because I'm a woman and thought this was quite an outdated mindset.

I'd have hated to be a man years ago when they had to go off fighting in wars, dying in trenches. Some countries still have call up too.

America still has call up. They call it 'selective service'.

Young men who don't enrol aren't eligible for things like state college sponsorship etc, whilst young women don't need to enrol to get said benefits. It'll be interesting to see if the draft is enforced if things ever kick off between US/China or US/Russia, which I sincerely hope won't happen.

I just googled the US draft as I've not read about it in years and was curious whether it was still in place - I believe it was to be reviewed.

Turns out it's still going strong and last survey found that 61% of men but only 28% of women think it should be gender equal. Funny that. 😂

@IndiaMay I used to think like this too. Like everything else in motherhood, it is the sheer scale of the issue that will overwhelm you once you are in the thick of it. And like everything else in parenting, once you are in it, there are no do overs.
The amount of push back you and your partner will get despite everyone crowing about how they provide opportunities, the realisation of how your careful planning relies heavily on others, the undermining comments, add any health issues for anyone involved... phew. and if like me you make it to the other side with your first child with any shred of respect left for society (because they were "kind enough" to give you the support you got - extended maternity pay or shared parental leave etc) you will lose it all after the next child.
I am the higher earning partner. Nothing prepares you for the feeling of resentment when you see that dad who is in your peer group and you both have 2 children, same large age gap because you were being tactical, be promoted over you several times. At first you think he must have been the better candidate until you realise kids don't care who the higher earner is. They wake up their special person multiple times a night and you were it. He wasn't. Your equal pay comparison peer group has changed and no amount of catch-up will ever put you two back in the same peer group.

The whole "men have it hard too" argument is a non starter for me. Society has expectations of everyone. Yes society expects men to lay down their lives but the compensation for men if they survive is material, tangible. Double points for them if their lives are never actually in danger and the societal expectation is that of proving their worth. The societal compensation for the expectation on women is anything but tangible. Your stars are a prime example of motherhood being seen as less. Less demanding and less invasive than going to war because maternal injuries, psychosis and potential maternal death is ... a potential natural consequence of a conscious choice ? Spot the difference? Women are not prepared to go to war as we already have to think about our mortality. Not because we can't be arsed as is being implied here. We naturally already have many ways of dying by our sex alone. But hey ho if we are not willing to die like the boys we need to forego tangible compensation for everything else. Bullshit. Or as I will refer to it from now on: "He is prepared to die like a man! Exploit Pay him well if he survives! She might die, oh well, that happens sometimes. But she'll be a good carer if she survives."

That was a reply to @TheGobhoblin

And it should be stats not stars smh.