To be utterly shocked by the penalty charge notices I have received from Waltham Forest?

[libertybonds]

I'm interested to know whether I am just a bad driver. I have received two penalty charge notices from Waltham Forest based on CCTV footage for the following 'offences.' I should mention that I don't know these roads and I was using satnav:

1. I approached a large junction. Painted on the road was an indication that you could go left or straight. I mistakenly thought the bus lane was the left turn lane so I moved there to turn. There were no buses around, and in the footage it's clear that I moved to this lane just as I approached the junction. I'm 100% sure that after I turned left I realised my error and moved to the correct lane. Again, no buses anywhere in sight.

1. I entered into a box junction behind a large vehicle. Traffic suddenly slowed and the tail end of my vehicle was in the junction. In the footage, you can actually see me move my vehicle into a lane that would take me in the wrong direction from where I wanted to go in order to move out of the box junction.

So, who is right? Me or Waltham Forest? Do I deserve to pay a combined £260 for these offences?

Adjusting to different rules is irrelevant. You drive on the roads in a country you pay attention to the rules of the road.

[quote libertybonds]@C8H10N4O2 I didn't think I would be caught out by slow moving traffic and end up in the box junction. I didn't do it on purpose.[/quote]
nobody does.....box junctions are easy...unless you are turning right and ONLY prevented by MOVING oncoming traffic then don't enter unless you can see room for your car on the other side. In slow moving traffic you should be more careful not less as you don't know if it will slow further or stop

Not all fines are fair...

My son's firm used a car park freely for some time. One day, a private company turned up, and erected signage and decided to charge to park there. They issued everybody with PCN's.

Thankfully it was all caught on CCTV, and dropped with haste! CF's!

I didn't think I would be caught out by slow moving traffic and end up in the box junction. I didn't do it on purpose.

That's bad planning and anticipation on your part. Think ahead.

and yet I know for a fact that in NJ you would not have huge fines every time you made a mistake while adjusting to the different rules and conventions

and how do they know you are just adjusting to the different rules and conventions? Do you have a sign on your car to that effect? What other laws should that be applied to do you think?

I live in next door Wanstead and avoid driving in Walthamstow and surrounds wherever possible - it's a total nightmare for motorists.

You need to stay out of bus lanes and yellow boxes, OP. They're both there for a good reason - to help people get where they're going more quickly and safely.

How would you like to see these rules enforced, if not with fines?

It happens OP.

Yes the fines are expensive and annoying and you might be right that it mirrors our generally unforgiving culture, although you will probably find we are forgiving in areas you don't anticipate like getting income tax bills wrong for example (not council tax though bloody hell never try to get out of paying that). You're going to have to suck it up but it's not a reflection of you as a driver really, it was a mistake. Maybe you will have to factor in some fines until you get used to it (and know where the cameras are!)

For me...

The bus lane will come down to whether or not there was adequate signage. All bus lanes I've seen have been very clear what they are through road makings - but I appreciate that might not be the case everywhere.

The box junction was a clear error. The offence is entering the box when the way out is not yet clear (apart from right turns). You entered when the way out was not clear but you thought it would be by the time you got to the other side - you gambled and lost.

Most of us have had fines (I've had one for a heavy traffic London box junction ). They sting, sometimes feel unfair but you rarely make the same mistake again, so...

[quote libertybonds]@godmum56 and yet I know for a fact that in NJ you would not have huge fines every time you made a mistake while adjusting to the different rules and conventions.[/quote]
I never found out because i never played silly devils whan I was driving. My point was that its no excuse to say "oh I am a good driver in xxx country" because you are NOT THERE.

@VerticalHorizon

Not all fines are fair...

My son's firm used a car park freely for some time. One day, a private company turned up, and erected signage and decided to charge to park there. They issued everybody with PCN's.

Thankfully it was all caught on CCTV, and dropped with haste! CF's!

So who did the car park belong to?

I've clocked up so many fines in London over the years so I feel you, but I got to realise that some of them are really there to catch people out and just generate money. I got caught out at a box junction in Highgate. When I looked into it, so many other people had too, to the point where that one junction alone had made £1 million in a year! How crazy is that!

Also left my car no more than 5 mins over the resident permit holders time in Chelsea one morning. I came outside to find my car had disappeared. It had been taken to a pound. I had to pay £350 for it's release!

I've just chalked it up as lessons learnt now. Annoying but not much you can always do.

@Killahangilion

Wow, that seems steep for making minor errors with road markings that didn’t lead to an accident.

In contrast:
Another parent driving to school hit me sending me flying. Ambulance was called etc.
I was about 100 yards from the same school she was driving to, walking my son. She cried to the judge (big heaving sobs) and got fined a paltry €100 for careless driving. I felt very ragey that day!

God that's awful

I have had a car since December and I haven't had any issues
You mean you haven't been stopped/fined for any other issues.
Do you have a UK license? The box junction one is a basic if you've done a UK test.

Which is worse @TastyTicklemore, the fine or the horrific feeling of everyone HATING you because you're holding them up? I once accidentally blocked four lanes of traffic and a bus lane (very bad error) and just sat there saying 'fuck fuck fuck fuck' and not making eye contact with anyone around me until it cleared. I would honestly have paid 75 quid instantly if it meant it all went away.

So who did the car park belong to?

Not 100% sure, but they'd had prior agreement to use it.
I think the actual owners then brought it a private parking firm to run it (or parts of it). However, they clearly tried their look by fining all cars on the park that had been there prior to the signage going up.

It was resolved and they still use the same car park. It was the private company taking a liberty (I would guess it's worked for them in the past!)

A heads up to the OP, since they are not very clear about road markings. Watch out for motorcycle and bike boxes when approaching traffic lights that are on red. Many people don’t realise that stopping in them when the lights are red can also get you fined.

*in, not it!

You were in the wrong both times

Glad they’re finally picking up on this stuff

Enforcement by camera is harsh, although ‘fair’ in the sense the cameras cannot be biased.

The bus lane offence seems pretty stupid and I have little sympathy (although it is annoying). Some box junctions, on the other hand, do seem designed to raise revenue rather than improve traffic flow, and I do think the penalty should only apply if you are actually obstructing.

There is one I know in London which is massive ans sandwiched between two lights. You either wait for it to be completely clear, by which time the lights have changed again, or go in the hope that you will glow through it. It is notorious as a revenue raiser.

Pay the fines, and invest in a few "advanced" driving lessons with a local instructor - it's very useful to have a few lessons after you have passed your test and are a fully qualified driver, to learn additional processes for really skillful, safe and legal driving that goes over and above the mere minimum standard for passing the driving test. When you are a learner your focus is on learning how to pass the test, but "real life" driving is different.

You need to understand, OP, that the local government of Waltham Forest would be very much prefer that you did not drive through their borough at all. They will tolerate you doing so if you stick precisely to the complex rules of the road but the high prices of their fines are quite deliberately designed to put you off driving there altogether.

just sat there saying 'fuck fuck fuck fuck' and not making eye contact with anyone around me until it cleared. I would honestly have paid 75 quid instantly if it meant it all went away.

Made me laugh that.
I think many of us have been there at some point. Maybe not at a junction, but possibly blocking someone pulling out, or trying to do a right turn across us. Usually because we've misjudged how much the traffic in front of us would move, then find ourselves blocking someone.

It happens. I've tried the 'don't look at them' routine. When it happens now, I just hold my hand up and admit being an idiot!

I didn't think I would be caught out by slow moving traffic and end up in the box junction. I didn't do it on purpose.

So you chose to take a calculated risk and you lost. This still wasn't an accident.

OP, with the Bus Lane issue try the Pepipoo website. They are experts on Council tickets. You will need to create an account and post a copy of the ticket and a link to the council video. Depending on when you moved lane to turn left, you might be able to argue "de minimus". You also need to consider the discount period. If you have made a mistake, you need to pay at the discounted rate. Don't ignore: Council tickets can get very expensive, very quickly!

I didn't think I would be caught out by slow moving traffic and end up in the box junction.

But this is precisely why you don't enter a box junction until you can see your exit from it to be clear. Otherwise you risk being 'caught out' if the traffic slows or stops.

My UK driving instructor said I'm a great driver.

Such a great driver you got two PCNs, at least one of which was entirely avoidable...maybe ask your driving instructor to pay the fines for you?