To be utterly shocked by the penalty charge notices I have received from Waltham Forest?

[libertybonds]

I'm interested to know whether I am just a bad driver. I have received two penalty charge notices from Waltham Forest based on CCTV footage for the following 'offences.' I should mention that I don't know these roads and I was using satnav:

1. I approached a large junction. Painted on the road was an indication that you could go left or straight. I mistakenly thought the bus lane was the left turn lane so I moved there to turn. There were no buses around, and in the footage it's clear that I moved to this lane just as I approached the junction. I'm 100% sure that after I turned left I realised my error and moved to the correct lane. Again, no buses anywhere in sight.

1. I entered into a box junction behind a large vehicle. Traffic suddenly slowed and the tail end of my vehicle was in the junction. In the footage, you can actually see me move my vehicle into a lane that would take me in the wrong direction from where I wanted to go in order to move out of the box junction.

So, who is right? Me or Waltham Forest? Do I deserve to pay a combined £260 for these offences?

Here is a screenshot of the junction.

Are you all telling me you think this is fair?

And here is my car, what I got busted for.

Clearly that is not fair, and I would like to give you a virtual hug and some

But unfortunately we have 15 pages here of people who are determined to side with the bloody idiot council and it's unlikely any of us is going to persuade them differently

@libertybonds

And here is my car, what I got busted for.

I'd be annoyed too. And I'd still be wrong.

So if you crossed 10 yard too early, that's ok?
What about 11 yards, or 15, or 30? where would you deem acceptable?

How about not crossing the solid white line, as that's the acceptable marker!

I just moved into the lane a few meters early, when there was almost no traffic and certainly no buses around

I actually think that's really unfair. Cars are INSTRUCTED to move to the lane that I went to. I just did it slightly earlier than I apparently, technically was meant to

You still don't get it, do you?!

You're not meant to drive in the bus lane. Regardless of whether there's no traffic or buses around. A few meters early is, actually, quite a lot!

Why can't you just accept that you were wrong?!

The screenshot of the junction is from PePIPoo. The second one is my car at the same junction. By the placement of the arrow painting on the ground in each picture, you can see the nature of my supposed offence.

I can actually buy the box junction one even though I think it's the kind of offence that should be excused with discretion, but the bus lane one appears to me to be entirely unfair.

@libertybonds

And here is my car, what I got busted for.

Do you see that thick white line? That you are crossing? That denotes it is a bus lane.

I'm not sure what bit of that is really complicated

To the people who think it was right for me to get a fine for moving lanes NOT at the last minute in an area of almost no traffic at 8pm when there were no buses around, I truly have no words.

Why would you possibly need to remain carefully out of the bus lane under these circumstances? What an idiotic approach to enforcement.

@bananapumpkin

Clearly that is not fair, and I would like to give you a virtual hug and some

But unfortunately we have 15 pages here of people who are determined to side with the bloody idiot council and it's unlikely any of us is going to persuade them differently

I have every sympathy, but she's still in the wrong. There has to be a cut off point, and that solid white line shows it. She crossed it. In her shoes, I'd be so irritated, but when you step back and look at it logically, she DID cross lanes too early, and that's that.

Because the bus lane rules obviously apply at that time so therefore they should be followed. What’s so hard to understand?

@bananapumpkin it's interesting to see how some people approach these rules. It almost makes me want to move back to my home country! What a dreadful outlook to have on life.

I mean, I've obviously learnt now that traffic enforcement here is rigidly formulaic and stupid. Next time I will wait until the last minute and veer into the other lane, which clearly will be much safer.

@libertybonds

To the people who think it was right for me to get a fine for moving lanes NOT at the last minute in an area of almost no traffic at 8pm when there were no buses around, I truly have no words.

Why would you possibly need to remain carefully out of the bus lane under these circumstances? What an idiotic approach to enforcement.

Should we all be allowed to cross red lights when there's no traffic around, as well?

[quote libertybonds]@bananapumpkin it's interesting to see how some people approach these rules. It almost makes me want to move back to my home country! What a dreadful outlook to have on life.

I mean, I've obviously learnt now that traffic enforcement here is rigidly formulaic and stupid. Next time I will wait until the last minute and veer into the other lane, which clearly will be much safer.[/quote]
In your home country they don't have rigid traffic rules, then? Really?

Or do people just think they don't apply to them?

Why would you need to veer? It’s pretty simple to drive to the end of the bus lane, signal and move in. Especially if no buses are around!

Well thanks for the photos OP.

And I’ll just repeat what I said.
OP you sound total unreasonable and willing to admit you committed these offences!

Yes I’d be annoyed. But then admit I shouldn’t have done it and not repeat.

What is so difficult about that?

Next time I will wait until the last minute and veer into the other lane, which clearly will be much safer

From that photo, there is room for at least three cars where you turn into the other lane, before the lights.

And approaching a junction you shouldn't be "veering" anywhere. If you are, you're driving too fast.

If the exit was clear when you entered the box junction and traffic suddenly slowed + only your wheels were on it you weren’t really blocking it were uou?

I actually don't think it's logical at all. It's completely stupid. The purpose of the bus lane is to ensure people don't get in the way of buses. If there are no buses around and a small number of cars are approaching a junction where the bus lane ends, why couldn't you move lanes a few metres early?

Again, I now see the utterly idiotic and rigid approach which is taken and I will keep it in mind - but I sincerely think this is the wrong outcome. I would say the same of literally anyone in this situation.

[quote libertybonds]@bananapumpkin it's interesting to see how some people approach these rules. It almost makes me want to move back to my home country! What a dreadful outlook to have on life.

I mean, I've obviously learnt now that traffic enforcement here is rigidly formulaic and stupid. Next time I will wait until the last minute and veer into the other lane, which clearly will be much safer.[/quote]
Nope. If you’re any kind of driver then your car will be under control at all times. If you’re ‘veering’ anywhere, you’re doing it wrong and shouldn’t be on the road. You signal, and when the bus lane ends, move over into the left.

People here are being unnecessarily harsh - mumsnet bring out the ragey ones lmao

This thread is less of an "Am I Being Unreasonable?" more of an "I will ask if I am being unreasonable, then proceed to tell you in my multiple posts that I am not when posters answers suggest otherwise and that the rules of the road should not apply to me'

@CastawayQueen

If the exit was clear when you entered the box junction and traffic suddenly slowed + only your wheels were on it you weren’t really blocking it were uou?

The exit wasn’t clear though or she would have been able to exit!

Why would you be veering?! Wait till you’re clear of the solid white line, check nothing is coming, move over. If you’re coming up to traffic lights or a junction then you’ll be slowing down anyway so no sudden veering required.

For yellow boxes just wait a few seconds to check it’s fully clear before you go. Again, no veering needed.

It almost makes me want to move back to my home country!…I mean, I've obviously learnt now that traffic enforcement here is rigidly formulaic and stupid.

Or maybe it’s just we have rules that people are meant to follow? And get penalised if they don’t.

Why do you think you are above these rules, OP?

@ThursdayWeld the red light comparison is really bizarre.

In my home country, there aren't bus lanes like this. But there is an expectation that people drive sensibly and with respect for other drivers. I definitely thought I was moving aside to make way for the rest of the traffic.