To be utterly shocked by the penalty charge notices I have received from Waltham Forest?

[libertybonds]

I'm interested to know whether I am just a bad driver. I have received two penalty charge notices from Waltham Forest based on CCTV footage for the following 'offences.' I should mention that I don't know these roads and I was using satnav:

1. I approached a large junction. Painted on the road was an indication that you could go left or straight. I mistakenly thought the bus lane was the left turn lane so I moved there to turn. There were no buses around, and in the footage it's clear that I moved to this lane just as I approached the junction. I'm 100% sure that after I turned left I realised my error and moved to the correct lane. Again, no buses anywhere in sight.

1. I entered into a box junction behind a large vehicle. Traffic suddenly slowed and the tail end of my vehicle was in the junction. In the footage, you can actually see me move my vehicle into a lane that would take me in the wrong direction from where I wanted to go in order to move out of the box junction.

So, who is right? Me or Waltham Forest? Do I deserve to pay a combined £260 for these offences?

Yabu

My DH just had to pay £60 to Bradford council because our Sat Nav sent us through a bus gate. Never heard of bus gates before. It was a mistake but shit happens.
So we've paid it and next time we are in Bradford, we'll be more careful!

I've been caught out recently in Hackney, Haringey and Islington.
Turning right out of a newly designated no right turn junction, leaving my back wheels about 20cm in a box junction after misjudging the amount of space that was left behind the preceding car, and going past a no entry sign (also newly erected) respectively.

I've been driving for thirty years and those are the first FPNs I've ever incurred. The two where the road signage had only recently changed were a fair cop, and my own stupid fault for being on auto pilot, but the box junction did feel a bit unfair, as I wasn't actually obstructing the junction at all.

They are an absolute cash cow for councils, although DH appealed a box junction FPN in Waltham Forest a few years ago and they cancelled it. I googled the junction and it was this one.

www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/11467989.box-junction-nets-council-900-per-day-fines/

YANBU, I'm very sympathetic to you.

I ended up in a new bus lane twice on the same day as the road markings had changed, it's a very easy mistake to make. I got two tickets and thankfully my appeal was granted (as they'd recently changed the layout).

It sounds like you just got unlucky with the box junction too.

I think these types of fines are very unfair on those who are driving safely but make errors due to not knowing the town etc. It's a normal part of driving to make small mistakes.

It's a very harsh money grabbing system!

I got a fine for stopping in that same box DoraDont! But they cancelled it because I could have exited the box any time by going into the left lane.

It sounds like you just got unlucky with the box junction too

How do you get "unlucky" with a box junction @YellowSunshineSky? You're not supposed to enter it until you can exit it (if you're driving straight on). What has luck got to do with it?

Vertical horizon.. is that the magic roundabout in Swindon?

In Hammersmith there is a box junction (which you cannot enter unless the exit is clear). Only issue is that you dont know that until you turn the corner.

Its a very well know revenue generator for LB of Hammersmith

Definately appeal, it gives you time, then pay up promptly so you pay reduced charge. Read the ticket (pcn) and the Highway Code, maybe a couple of refresher lessons?

Yes you are a poor driver. These rea not 'mistakes' they are a poor reading of the road markings, traffic and signals. Think about what you are doing and don't make the same mistakes again.

@logincard

Yes you are a poor driver. These rea not 'mistakes' they are a poor reading of the road markings, traffic and signals. Think about what you are doing and don't make the same mistakes again.

Bloody hell, I see the headmistress has joined us.

@ultrablue

Vertical horizon.. is that the magic roundabout in Swindon?

No, I believe it's the one in Hemel Hempstead. I came across it once staying there for a Cup Final at Wembley. It's almost as if some town planner was pushing the boundaries for what he/she could get away with.

I've come across it a couple of times since, and it still amuses and irritates me in equal measure.

@logincard

Yes you are a poor driver. These rea not 'mistakes' they are a poor reading of the road markings, traffic and signals. Think about what you are doing and don't make the same mistakes again.

Bloody hell, I'm sorry - and I didn't even commit the offence!

I must do better
I must do better
I must do better
I must do better

Sod it, I'll take detention

Update: after reading that news article, I just did a search and got a few hours on PePIPoo and other sources (including a FOIA request) about the "infamous box junction" that led to my PNC - so at least I'm not alone!

An opinion was voiced equating fines with taxes - do you really feel that getting a fine for breaking the law is the same as paying VAT or Income tax?

@DynamoKev Yes, actually, in this case - the fact that something is illegal does not make it wrong, and in the cases mentioned by the OP the law is clearly being enforced primarily to raise revenue (as there is no impact on the flow of traffic or safety).

[quote libertybonds]@yourestandingonmyneck obviously not! But frankly it seems difficult to avoid getting a PNC given how minor these offences are. What other terrible things might I accidentally do?[/quote]
Seriously - yes - you should sell your car if you are unable to drive it properly within the Highway Code and the law.

Oh, now I looked up the bus lane one and there are FOIA and PePIPoo posts on this precise issue as well

Looks like I stumbled into two big revenue-generating offence traps recently

Seriously - yes - you should sell your car if you are unable to drive it properly within the Highway Code and the law.

99% of the population are unable to do this over a prolonged period.
I think the law accepts that some breaches will occur, and it's within an acceptable margin.

Just like they know 70mph limits will effectively result in a significant number driving at 80. It's wrong, but it's predictable and accepted.

*got a few hits. Not hours. Thanks, Autocorrect!

@ThursdayWeld OP said the traffic suddenly slowed and the tail end of her car was left in the junction.

So the way I understand it, based on the current traffic flow she'd assessed that she would make it fully through the box junction and her assessment would have been correct, but then the traffic suddenly slowed to a stop unexpectedly, leaving a small bit of her car in the box.

Looks like I stumbled into two big revenue-generating offence traps recently

Not really. You're looking at a forum that's going to be populated with aggrieved recipients of a fine, and thus it's going to be considered a money making trap amongst all those there. It's a bit self-fulfilling exercise.

This thread is generating more traffic than the M25!

OP you sound total unreasonable and willing to admit you committed these offences!

As for bleating how you’ve driving since December and only get 2, well tbh that’s shit. And certainly not a mark of good driving!

@FerretFumbler other people online posted better photos of the bus lane junction than the council provided to me. It literally does turn into a left turn lane. I just moved into the lane a few meters early, when there was almost no traffic and certainly no buses around

I actually think that's really unfair. Cars are INSTRUCTED to move to the lane that I went to. I just did it slightly earlier than I apparently, technically was meant to. It honestly wouldn't have crossed my mind that this would be a problem. It's clearly just about revenue generation.

That name! @FerretFumbler

I don't think £130 is too bad for an offence like this. You want it to sting enough to ensure that people do not just think " oh stuff it its only a tenner" type thing.