To be utterly shocked by the penalty charge notices I have received from Waltham Forest?

[libertybonds]

I'm interested to know whether I am just a bad driver. I have received two penalty charge notices from Waltham Forest based on CCTV footage for the following 'offences.' I should mention that I don't know these roads and I was using satnav:

1. I approached a large junction. Painted on the road was an indication that you could go left or straight. I mistakenly thought the bus lane was the left turn lane so I moved there to turn. There were no buses around, and in the footage it's clear that I moved to this lane just as I approached the junction. I'm 100% sure that after I turned left I realised my error and moved to the correct lane. Again, no buses anywhere in sight.

1. I entered into a box junction behind a large vehicle. Traffic suddenly slowed and the tail end of my vehicle was in the junction. In the footage, you can actually see me move my vehicle into a lane that would take me in the wrong direction from where I wanted to go in order to move out of the box junction.

So, who is right? Me or Waltham Forest? Do I deserve to pay a combined £260 for these offences?

Here is one for you...

You approach a box junction in the left hand lane.
An idiot is next to you, in the right hand lane.

Your exit from the box junction is clear, so you drive ahead.
The idiot next to you also drives ahead and decides to pull into your lane thus leaving you without room to exit the box junction.

HE is at fault, however, you are now breaking the highway code through absolutely no fault of your own.

Expensive lesson to learn. Will ensure you're more aware next time.

You deserve both the penalty charges. You should never drive in a bus lane or block any part of a box junction. You should know this if you read the highway code.

There’s a forum called pepipoo.com where they help people out with this sort of thing. You might well have a defence OP. Ignore all the holier-than-thou types!

The Stockport one is fine, nobody should be coming off that roundabout into the right hand lane

@walkoflifewoohoo

The Stockport one is fine, nobody should be coming off that roundabout into the right hand lane

Except the bus. So clearly both lanes are intended for use.

Remind me to never come to Waltham Forest. Surely there’s some level of discretion here.. I would appeal..

I would love to know if all these people who say you deserve it have ever slightly gone over the speed limit or been with someone in a car that has! I can bet your bottom dollar they have!!

That means the bus driver has to know, but the car driver is not afforded the same knowledge. The only way the bus driver can get into that lane is by crossing a solid white line or driving directly into the second lane

Clymene

I've never taken a U.K. driving test and even I know about box junctions

So you have never driven over them

@VerticalHorizon

Here is one for you...

You approach a box junction in the left hand lane.
An idiot is next to you, in the right hand lane.

Your exit from the box junction is clear, so you drive ahead.
The idiot next to you also drives ahead and decides to pull into your lane thus leaving you without room to exit the box junction.

HE is at fault, however, you are now breaking the highway code through absolutely no fault of your own.

You're fine in this case. The offence is entering the junction when the exit isn't clear. The fact that it was clear when you entered and someone cut in front of you, against the rules of the road, would be grounds for a successful appeal.

It's like with the rule that you can enter the junction if you are turning right, the exit is clear, but you are blocked by oncoming traffic. It's legal enter the box, stop and wait for oncoming traffic to clear. But what happens if oncoming traffic then blocks your exit? You're now stuck on the junction with a blocked exit. Again, you are in the clear, because you didn't enter the junction when your exit was blocked.

This obviously doesn't apply with slow moving traffic, because clearly if the exit becomes blocked (and people are driving legally) you didn't check the exit was clear when you entered it.

@Bythemillpond

Clymene

I've never taken a U.K. driving test and even I know about box junctions

So you have never driven over them

Well I've driven into them but only when I can get out the other side.

They're right, but you do have my sympathy.

Some of the replies to this thread

I think it's okay to be peeved at such huge fines for minor things. Misjudging and ending up with the rear of your car slightly in a box junction is really not the end of the world. You shouldn't do it, but I can see how it can happen. I would have thought large fines should be for instances where someone has clearly ignored the rules and is sitting in the junction causing chaos. Bus lanes are also badly marked sometimes.

Fining for stuff like this is just a way for councils to make money. It is irritating, and looking on street view if your driving somewhere new is good advice

So would this suggest to someone driving down a road for the first time that you are not allowed to. Especially when the signage is after you can actually do anything about it.

@Peachee

Remind me to never come to Waltham Forest. Surely there’s some level of discretion here.. I would appeal..

That is precisely the point. I’m sure you are very welcome in Waltham Forest but they’d very much rather you took the train.

"That means the bus driver has to know, but the car driver is not afforded the same knowledge. The only way the bus driver can get into that lane is by crossing a solid white line or driving directly into the second lane"

Yes. What's the problem with that? The bus driver needs to know where her bus lane is, the car driver should know how to use a roundabout and should be exiting into the left hand lane.

Fucking hell, the last thing I would want to do would be to leave the Metropolitan Police - an organisation declared to be institutionally racist - to be given discretion as to who to do for bus lane misuse, or box junction offences.

The more things are automated such that they don't have to use their limited, prejudiced brains, the better.

Just wait till Waltham Forest is in the extended ULEZ zone in October. That's going to be fun.

@Blossomtoes you are wrong. Box junctions were most definitely a thing then and were in the highway code.

The signage for a lot of roads if you are not familiar with the road lay out is quite confusing.
Agree you shouldn’t go in a bus Lane or stop in a box junction but if you have a massive truck in front of you, you can miss signs and the next thing you know you have a fine.

Anyone who says they are perfect drivers I would suggest you don’t really drive that much in unfamiliar areas

OP can you not halve the fines by paying them within 14 days?

Love the sanctimony on this thread. As if all these posters have never made any sort of small indiscretion when driving! Sorry OP, I got done on a bus lane too, it was in my parent's town and had recently been changed to the bus lane starting earlier. I was driving home late at night and didn't realise the boundary had changed so I moved lanes too early. My fault, paid the fine, but ffs it does happen to most people over a lifetime of driving!!

@walkoflifewoohoo

"That means the bus driver has to know, but the car driver is not afforded the same knowledge. The only way the bus driver can get into that lane is by crossing a solid white line or driving directly into the second lane"

Yes. What's the problem with that? The bus driver needs to know where her bus lane is, the car driver should know how to use a roundabout and should be exiting into the left hand lane.

I actually think having the arrow in the RH lane as a straight in is unhelpful — wouldn't it be clearer if it were a right arrow?

*straight on

I'm genuinely shocked at how many people appear to view these kind of penalties as positive. It is indicative of a really unpleasant culture. Thankfully there are still plenty of areas outside London that aren't so vindictive.