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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Judge has denied Britney Spears’s request!

214 replies

PoisionIvy22 · 01/07/2021 07:29

....AIBU to think WTF?!

What is actually going to her? I feel so sad waking up to that news this morning. Is the judge on the payroll too or something? It’s just awful Sad

Any judges here that can shed any light on why she can’t be free to live her life?

OP posts:
CheddarGorge · 01/07/2021 09:32

@HOkieCOkie

It’s hard to judge from an outsider point of view. I have a relative who is making choices that are harming themselves mentally etc they don’t see that they have an issue. They come across as a healthy individual to outsiders. But we know there is a lot more to it.

I don’t know Britney but I’m guessing she’s got a lot of issues we don’t know about etc

So what. She's an adult and should be able to make her own decisions good or bad. She's not property. If she wants to top herself then that's up to her. I would personally throw myself off the roof if this was me. It's a disgusting and horrific way to live
TheReluctantPhoenix · 01/07/2021 09:32

It is interesting to google the judge in this case and Gertrude Gettinger…

PurpleHoodie · 01/07/2021 09:34

It has just been reported this is just a point of law at the moment.

There is another Hearing on the 14th July. The denial was in relation to a previous appeal.

More paperwork needs to be filed by Britney's team.

Cowbells · 01/07/2021 09:34

I agree with @PatchyTwat.

SirVixofVixHall · 01/07/2021 09:37

@PoisionIvy22

To be honest, I’m starting to not give a shit what reasons the judge had to say no because IMO in 2021 there is NO reason why a grown woman cannot have access to her own money, to spend it the way in which she chooses, to not be able to drive, to not be able to get married or have a child, to be able to go wherever she wants and move freely around etc, etc, the list goes on.

Britney Spears had a breakdown, shaved her head and took a baseball bat to a car. Is it any wonder really? But that seems (publicly) to be the extent of her ‘crimes’ it ISN’T illegal for someone to have mental health issues FFS. Think of all the A-list Celebs out there that have mental health issues, that are hooked on drugs, that go around doing ‘bad ads’ shit, yet no one is locking them up?

If she wants to be free and wants to bloody overdose on class A’s and die the first night of the end of the conservatorship (and I don’t believe she will, I believe she’ll just want to live a quiet life for a while and enjoy being ‘free’) then that’s up to her and she should be allowed to do that if that’s what she wishers, because let’s face it, lots of others do.

So ignore my earlier comment about why the judge has denied. There isn’t any justification IMO.

I agree.
FreeBritnee · 01/07/2021 09:38

@PurpleHoodie

It has just been reported this is just a point of law at the moment.

There is another Hearing on the 14th July. The denial was in relation to a previous appeal.

More paperwork needs to be filed by Britney's team.

Is she allowed to instruct her own chosen legal team now? My understanding was she wasn’t allowed and had to use the legal team appointed to her by her conservatorship.

They seem to have her very tightly bound.

ElderMillennial · 01/07/2021 09:41

It's difficult as we don't know the full story but I can't see why that would be justified.

Bluntness100 · 01/07/2021 09:47

So what. She's an adult and should be able to make her own decisions good or bad. She's not property. If she wants to top herself then that's up to her. I would personally throw myself off the roof if this was me. It's a disgusting and horrific way to live

Now that’s an interesting perspective. Clearly there is no “should be able to” when it comes to making decisions as a mentally unwell person, if you lack capability you lack capability. Should we just let people who are very unwell get on with it and not protect them against their wishes? It’s a moral dilemma, but as a society we protect the vulnerable. We section people, to ensure their safety, if we feel they pose a risk to themselves or others. You feel we shouldn’t. I don’t think I agree.

randomkey123 · 01/07/2021 09:47

Whatever the reasoning behind it, a grown woman being controlled by her father is deeply unsettling.

I feel very sorry for her. It was her father who pushed her into the spotlight and is reaping the financial reward.

Menora · 01/07/2021 09:49

My own thoughts are that this failed as she refused to go under further assessment.

The way she described the assessments did not seem right either - the conservatorship arranges assessments that are very intense for hours every day for 2 weeks, and she can’t cope with them and then fails. This doesn’t mean she can’t cope with life.

I would like to see any of us having 3 intense therapy sessions every single week for years against our will, psych assessments over and over not to react badly and fall apart. The whole system has her trapped because the assessments now give her PTSD and she is afraid of them. It is abusive, and it’s not healing her. No one independent is assessing her or giving her therapy - that is what is so wrong about this.

SummerBreeze1980 · 01/07/2021 09:49

It does seem an awful mess. Unfortunately as Britney did not want to be assessed I think this is where it has fallen down. However considering the claims Britney made about her father surely he should be removed immediately pending investigation.

I don't know how it works in the US but a Power of Attorney can only make a decision for a person if that person is deemed to lack capacity for that specific decision at that specific time. So someone may be deemed to lack capacity to make a complex medical decision, but they have capacity to give or deny consent to having a tooth removed. They may be experiencing a psychotic episode during one period and unable to give informed consent about taking their prescribed medication, but another more stable time they are able to make that decision.

TheSockMonster · 01/07/2021 09:53

@unwuthering

God, it's like the olden days when your male relatives could just have you committed to an asylum, on the most tenuous of grounds, for the term of your natural life, if you displeased them in some way.
My thoughts exactly

Clearly she has some MH issues and requires support. But a conservatorship seems overkill, especially when her abusive father (who punched her son, I believe) is allowed to retain control and a paycheck from it.

lljkk · 01/07/2021 10:00

"she refused an assessment"

This is the reason her appeal was denied, far as I can tell.
You have to deploy conspiracy theories to justify her being dead set against being assessed.

thanks for insights @SofiaAmes

If her dad wasn't involved, would someone else (also needs to be paid for their involvement) be more honest in looking out for her financial and health interests -- how can you be so sure of that?

My brother (severely mentally ill) had an old family friend manage a trust fund for him -- of course old family friend was paid a salary out of that fund. She also went to great pains to find a credible replacement when she wanted to retire. Kept warning me about dishonest people setting up companies for trustee purposes.

I've never met any mentally ill person (with a fund held in their name managed by someone else) who liked their fund trustee -- complaints of unfairness is the norm. Even though the rules about how these funds can be spent are usually very strait-jacketed.

OldTinHat · 01/07/2021 10:05

I, too, was speechless at reading this today. A question though - what would happen to her if her dad died suddenly or when he dies in the future?

MotionActivatedDog · 01/07/2021 10:06

Her father has no requested an investigation into Britney’s allegations against him. How on earth does that not make his role in the conservatorship a conflict of interests? He is actively investigating her??!

MotionActivatedDog · 01/07/2021 10:06

*now

PhilSwagielka · 01/07/2021 10:07

Poor Britney. She needs to be away from her dad, he's treating her like an animal in a cage. I know she's not well but she needs someone who'll actually look after her. Her dad is useless.

Pedalpushers · 01/07/2021 10:08

@lljkk but that isn't the case here. Britney's entire family are on the payroll. There are court documents showing that she pays for her sister's flights. An estimated 500 million dollars of her money has disappeared. Britney's father is paid about double per month than she is allowed herself.

cindarellasbelly · 01/07/2021 10:12

I agree I think a lot of people posting don't have experience of someone with serious mental illness. Clearly what is happening with Britney's care isn't working, and needs to be revisited, but it doesn't mean everyone involved is out to get her.

  • For one thing, her dad is ONLY involved in her finances. People talk about how much he's paid for that, but I imagine it you appointed a private firm fees would be similar if not more. He has had absolutely no say in any of her personal issues, i.e whether she can get massages, remove contraception, get married, go on holiday, the things she was most unhappy about, for years now. He was in charge of bringing her financial estate back from the brink of bankruptcy to being worth 60 million, while he may be financially profiteering he has made sure her sons are supported with that money and has seemed to do a good job. due to relationship breakdown, and independent firm is probably the best objective choice now, but may not the best choice in terms of protecting her financial wealth.
  • The 'personal' conservator, who is responsible for this, is someone Britney initially wanted appointed instead of her father but has now turned against. Her father seems to want someone independent to assess this person and what she's doing, suggesting she certainly isn't a plant by the family (though maybe someone who is also out to profit off the situation)
  • Her lawyer is independently appointed by the court, and she has the power to instruct a new one.
  • Her ex, who has custody of her boys, was pretty much the only dissenting public voice after her testimony and basically said "The boys love her and want her happy and healthy, but I'm worried about the idea the conservatorship would end without any independent assessment of her, I have never been told the nature of her struggles but I know lithium isn't prescribed lightly and she shouldn't be taken off these drugs without some kind of structured supervision in place" Which seems perfectly sensible to be honest, but isn't something she wants. If this is all a plot from people out to control her money, an independent psychiatric assessment would be the easiest way to demonstrate that: even with fairly significant mental health systems most people still wouldn't reach the bar for the kind of intervention this conservatorship is.
  • It is entirely possible to be able to work, especially when that work doesn't involve decision-making, and not be able to make other decisions about your life. From a therapeutic point of view, work can be helpful.

My own view is coloured by watching up close a different heath system try to deal with the mental health of someone who was, for about a year, a serious threat to others because he chose to come off his meds. Neighbours calling police regularly, the family member he was threatening calling police regularly, a real fear in the family he might harm himself or others. Genuine, genuine fear he could kill. Eventually he was sectioned, but the bar was very high. A court order required drugs for six months which were injected - he was released very quickly, after I think a couple of weeks of being an in-patient, and basically as soon as he was 'stable' from the drugs he was deemed to have capacity to stop taking the drugs. Things he has done while 'stable' include basically ordering a mail order bride, stealing extensively, and being completely unable to manage his finances. He can, as it happens, work: obviously not a job that requires handling money but it helps. Family are at the moment managing his finances and supplementing his income with his consent, but ultimately I don't see how he could ever successfully live alone. If he had access to 60 million dollars I have absolutely no doubt he would be dead in five years. He is a smart, articulate man, but he is very very ill. Something like the conservatorship seems to be on paper would probably be perfect for him to be honest. But: he had SO many times when he was released (from policy or psychiatric care) when he was a danger, there were SO many opportunities for him to challenge when restrictions were put in place. And I think thats right. And I think Britney clearly needs to be in a better situation.

But equally, the boyfriend looks sketchy as hell. Once they're married/have kids, he will be in control of all that money. It is entirely possible she is reliant on meds not compatible with pregnancy. This ruling seems temporary: her team needs to petition to have the conservatorship removed, and hopefully independent psychiatric assessment can take place and they can find a safe supported way for her to exit that.

But my experience of a couple of people I know with chronic long term mental health issues is its nowhere near as straightforward as 'She appears coherent, and can work, so must be capable of running her own affairs.' Its sad this is playing out in public but maybe more sunlight is what she needs so all avenues are explored. I really hope she gets through this, and that she is in fact able to run her own affairs. But I think people are jumping to 'conspiracy' too quickly.

FreeBritnee · 01/07/2021 10:14

I can’t help comparing Britney’s situation with Michael Jackson. He was celebrated for his eccentricity. He did all manner of things that had the world scratching their heads including being anaesthetised to sleep every night and dangling babies out of windows. Why was he never sectioned?

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 01/07/2021 10:14

cindarellasbelly I totally agree and also have experience of this with a family member.

Sailingthroughtheweek · 01/07/2021 10:15

All I could think when reading the news, is that BS must have more serious health issues than I thought. No judge would maintain it without good reason - it may also be that the terms have been varied so that although it remains in place, she’ll have more autonomy.

Branleuse · 01/07/2021 10:31

I would expect someone to be a lot more ill than Britney to require this sort of conservatorship. Someone with dementia for example. Not someone who has mental health issues but can clearly still work and live. There is no way this isnt abusive

wjg65ka · 01/07/2021 10:33

Why has no information been released on why they've denied her freedom?

Crispsandchocolate4 · 01/07/2021 10:35

sorry if already been said, this ruling is based on a previous request and has not factored in her statements. Lets hope the next one when they take on board all she has said and she is free at last!!

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