Judge has denied Britney Spears’s request!

[PoisionIvy22]

....AIBU to think WTF?!

What is actually going to her? I feel so sad waking up to that news this morning. Is the judge on the payroll too or something? It’s just awful

Any judges here that can shed any light on why she can’t be free to live her life?

To be honest, I’m starting to not give a shit what reasons the judge had to say no because IMO in 2021 there is NO reason why a grown woman cannot have access to her own money, to spend it the way in which she chooses, to not be able to drive, to not be able to get married or have a child, to be able to go wherever she wants and move freely around etc, etc, the list goes on

Exactly this.

I wonder why batshit crazy fucknozzle Kanye West isn't subject to the same horrific conservatorship. Maybe looked after by his father. Oh, because he's a man.

If she can be used again to work and do shows and make more money they she can’t possibly be too mentally ill to make some independent decisions. She’s not a fucking pet

100% agree with this. How anyone could go and watch her perform knowing that she is being used like a performing monkey is beyond me.

I'm not sure if some of you are confused about the purpose of the hearing. It wasn't to stop the conservatorship completely. She hasn't made a legal request to stop the conservatorship completely or the personal part.....the judge clarified that. This was jist to replace her father. Which she should be allowed to do.....but maybe the suggested firm did not have Britneys best interest at heart either.

What ever the private ins and outs of the case are it is very sad.

We do have similar here the Mental Capacity Act.

Excellent post @SofiaAmes. I think the public are going on some very scant information here. I do absolutely think conservatorships can be abused but I'm not sure that's what we are seeing in Britney case. I believe she is very very mentally unwell and I think this whole circus is another example of the media and public taking advantage of her. She is excessively childlike and her behavior is more indicative of someone with degenerative brain disease than mental illness. I fear this circus will actually be very detrimental for her.

@Twickytwo

The day of the court hearing, the BBC on the Today programme reported that she supposedly had a diagnosis of early onset dementia. This would mean that she progressively worsened and, I think, could be affected by a pregnancy. I agree about changing the Guardianship though.

It’s hardly unusual for a woman to receive an inaccurate diagnosis, though, is it?

I had previously heard that and believed it, but given this conservatorship has been in place for 13 years, isn’t that a remarkably slow disease trajectory? Given the quality of her evidence last week?

Forcing her to ingest toxic lithium against her will, a contraceptive device she doesn't want and perform like a slave. Its utterly abhorrent and the judge should be ashamed. The father was hardly on the scene growing up. He only swooped in when she got rich.

@uthredswife

Excellent post *@SofiaAmes*. I think the public are going on some very scant information here. I do absolutely think conservatorships can be abused but I'm not sure that's what we are seeing in Britney case. I believe she is very very mentally unwell and I think this whole circus is another example of the media and public taking advantage of her. She is excessively childlike and her behavior is more indicative of someone with degenerative brain disease than mental illness. I fear this circus will actually be very detrimental for her.

I’ve met abuse survivors who present like that, at least superficially. Plus she has to take the edge of her challenge to her keepers.

I appreciate you’re probably speaking from a professional perspective and I’m definitely not, but you haven’t examined her, have you?

None of us know what diagnoses she has or has not got, nor whether they’re correct or not.

I honestly couldn't go and watch her perform now, knowing she's being used like this, performing so unhappily, against her will.

This. I can't understand how anyone could pay to go to any of her concerts now.

For centuries, men have been able to detain their daughters and wives in asylums and emotionally and financially control them. It is still happening. Britney’s Dad has all his daughter’s money so of course he’s going to pay off the lawyers and judge.

@Bobbiebigbum

Forcing her to ingest toxic lithium against her will, a contraceptive device she doesn't want and perform like a slave. Its utterly abhorrent and the judge should be ashamed. The father was hardly on the scene growing up. He only swooped in when she got rich.

But you need to remember this is Britneys truth. Have you ever dealt with a very mentally ill person? Often their truth has no bearing in reality.

And I think this sums up the issue, it show cases it. None of us know britneys diagnoses, it’s sealed. She herself is not revealing it either. And she could have done. So many people don’t understand mental illness and simply assume that what someone says is the whole truth, they can’t perceive someone may be ill and there could be a very different version of events.

She’s either well enough to consent to performing for money, or she’s so unwell she can’t make decisions about her own health and family life.
I can’t see how it can be both.

But you need to remember this is Britneys truth. Have you ever dealt with a very mentally ill person? Often their truth has no bearing in reality.

@Bobbiebigbum ‘s correct though. Under what system does someone need to be relieved of their personal freedoms due to severity of illness but, conversely, can still be obliged to work long and gruelling hours of lucrative work?

There is a fundamental contradiction there. They cannot have it both ways.

X post.

@zoeydollie

She’s either well enough to consent to performing for money, or she’s so unwell she can’t make decisions about her own health and family life. I can’t see how it can be both.

Exactly!!

This is an interesting read about the concept of conservatorship in the context of mental illness:

natashatracy.com/mental-illness-issues/mental-illness-conservatorship-despite-britney-spears-case/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+natashaTracy+%28Bipolar+Burble+by+Natasha+Tracy%29

I have a relative who has a diagnosis of BPD, she is lovely, very capable of living her life - and does. But the treatment she receives from medical professionals and others can be appalling, because of this specific diagnosis, often there is an assumption that she is lying. There are a lot of diagnosis' of autism in our side of the family and quite honestly her meltdowns etc present no differently than some of them. I have read misdiagnosis is rife in women, I also wondered if Britney has a diagnosis of BPD and is suffering the same discrimination.

@zoeydollie

She’s either well enough to consent to performing for money, or she’s so unwell she can’t make decisions about her own health and family life. I can’t see how it can be both.

But it can be, that’s the thing, she can be incapable of running her life but fully able to perform and potentially even requested to at the time. Remember two things, she was in serious debt by the time the conservatoire was put in place, she’d given all her money to individuals who were abusing her, she had no money left at all and the fact she said she didn’t wish to perform does not mean that at the time she may well have really wanted to. That’s the thing about mental illness. All you’re hearing is the ill persons truth.

So she had a breakdown and has mental health problems and can NEVER run her own life again? It’s disgraceful. Misogyny at its finest.

This reads as though its all a bit of a tangle, and, from the tone, it all seems to be ongoing. All a bit state of flux, with as much PR as legal stuff going on. Anyone else read it like that?

www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jul/01/britney-spears-judge-denies-request-to-remove-father-jamie-from-conservatorship

IrisAtwood

Interesting read, but that link does say conservatorships aren't suitable for dementia, which is what the public have been told is the root of Britney's problems.

@zoeydollie

She’s either well enough to consent to performing for money, or she’s so unwell she can’t make decisions about her own health and family life. I can’t see how it can be both.

Yup

Absolutely terrible decision.
Michael Jackson dangled his baby out of a 10th story hotel window around the same time, and nothing was done.
Women are held to a higher standard, lots of male stars behave irrationally and still control their money.

@reallyreallyborednow I was trying to work this out. We have the Mental Capacity Act which starts out with a presumption of capacity and makes it clear that an inability to decide one thing does not mean you can't decide anything. There are tests of capacity that apply every time such as ability to understand and retain information. The phrase is "an unwise decision is still a decision". Even when someone is somewhere against their will (deprivation of liberty)¹there are rules and safeguards. With power of attorney you have to be scrupulous about what you do with the other person's money. The idea of someone being able to claim $16,000 a month for looking after someone else is alien I think. I also can't imagine any of the doctors I know prescribing / fitting contraception for a woman who is clearly telling them she does not want it and understands the consequences.

My grandmother had schizophrenia and had some very serious episodes. My dad had lasting power of attorney to prevent her from e.g. giving all her money to a private detective but he couldn't decide how she spent her money normally or make any decisions about her day to day life. She was sectioned a few times and I understand on one occasion she entered into what was deemed an inappropriate relationship (with a fellow patient), which they discouraged but had no right to prevent.

I read an article by a lawyer predicting it would be rejected as she refused an assessment. It just feels very very wrong, even if she isn't well enough to have full control over her life.

@SusannaM

IrisAtwood

Interesting read, but that link does say conservatorships aren't suitable for dementia, which is what the public have been told is the root of Britney's problems.

No they have not been told this. No diagnosis of her condition has been revealed

One court document stated dementia on th cover, with the rest sealed, but this is an umbrella term for many , many conditions especially in young people. All the public have been told is her condition is so severe she will never recover.

Misogynistic legal system.

It's a disgrace.