Is the Methodist Church right to allow same sex marriage? And what does this mean for C of E and Catholic Church?

[Notfeelingsopeachyandkeennow]

Personally, I am very pro this and think its about time!

I have just read that the Methodist Church is the 4th largest Christian denomination in Britain.

So - do you think that the Catholic Church and Church of England will inevitably follow suit at some point in time - even if that's still 50 years away?

And are you in favour of these changes?

I don't think that's the biggest hurdle. The true hurdle is homophobia.
The marriage issue is ultimately brought about because of the fundamental issue of men with men, and to a lesser extent women with women.

@Toddlerteaplease

The Catholic Church will never allow same sex marriage ever!

People used to say that about divorce, but it doesn't seem to be a biggie these days.

My late MIL was told that she couldn't divorce her violent, alcoholic, child-beating husband, or leave him or anything. Her priest said she'd made a vow to god and would go to hell if she broke it.

Celibacy was an essential requirement for Catholic priests, and still is supposedly. Not however, if you are a married Anglican priest who couldn't bear to remain in a Church that would allow mere women to be priests! Anything to make the Catholic church even more misogynistic!
Isn't the celibacy thing down to property too avoiding marriage within the Catholic religion.
If I was a Catholic priest who had struggled to remain celibate all my life, I'd be furious
It was seen as a job for life too.
In an Irish family of boys it was common for the eldest to keep the farm, the younger went to the Gardai or church for a career.
Many young men who didn't conform to heterosexual lifestyle joined up too as an escape, my friends father trained to be a priest before he left and married due the homosexual activity on campus 40 years ago.
There isn't many training for priesthood now.
www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/02/gay-sex-allegations-ireland-priest-st-patricks-college

@VerticalHorizon

Have a read of this, it's horrific:

www.methodistevangelicals.org.uk/Articles/523563/Homosexual_people_and.aspx

An excerpt:

*Our response to those who openly follow a homosexual lifestyle is more challenging. God shows unconditional love for humanity and we should reflect that; not a sentimental love, which permits people to do whatever they want, but a tough love which challenges destructive behaviour. How then do we apply the principle of love to people whose lives appear to deny some biblical injunctions? To condemn them as sinners and have nothing to do with them will not be helpful. Disapproval of other people’s actions should never cause social withdrawal or rejection, hatred, and persecution – where would be the love in that? A condemnatory attitude on our part can lead to secrecy in those who have not yet declared their sexuality, with the risk of the threat of blackmail. I wonder what we are about when our attitude causes some honest and sincere Christians who hold a different view about the authority of the Bible from ours to hide behind lies about their sexuality and their sexual practices? We cannot condone their practices but we can show respect even when we fundamentally disagree.
It is hard for us to accept that practising homosexual people and their heterosexual supporters sincerely believe that they are right. Some practising gay men and lesbian women I have talked with genuinely believe that their relationship with their long-term partner is neither destructive nor unhelpful. Though we view a long-term loving relationship between two people of the same sex as outside God’s plan for human relationships, we will surely see it as less damaging than promiscuity or an abusive relationship of any kind.

Gay and lesbian rights groups, both within and outside the church, campaign vocally for the acceptance of homosexuality as a valid lifestyle. This should be firmly and robustly challenged, as it contravenes both biblical teaching and Methodist standards.*

@verticalhorizon Horrific indeed. Thanks for sharing. "The Beautiful Story" film is another horrific assault on LGBT voices in the church. Its specifically one area of the CofE and definitely does not represent the CofE as a whole (though it is presented as such). I always flinch when someone uses the term "same sex attracted".

Methodist Evangelicals is a much smaller group within the Methodist Church

And they will likely splinter off now that this has been decided - this is REALLY likely

They do not represent Methodism
Just like those nutty Westboro Baptists don't represent the Baptists in America

Or that group in the Catholic Church against all contraception

I think anyone who marries should be allowed to, however there’s lots of options not involving the church.
I just think it’s hypocritical to allow something happen in the church which is spoken against so clearly in the bible.

It's not spoken at all about by Jesus - on the contrary he says 'love your neighbour as yourself'

And there's HUNDREDS of Bible instructions which are pretty clear that have multiple cultural/customs that we obviously don't do:

1. Like hitting your wife with a stick no thicker than your thumb

1. Covering your head in church if you're a woman

1. Eating dairy and meat together

1. Marrying your brother in law if your husband dies

1. Fucking a servant to get a kid

(Now I would argue the above are all wrong/misunderstood/stupid in today's society)

But they're still SAID

Some of the issue stems from Pauline testimony, and his mention of homosexuality (condemnation). Traditionally, his letters were interpreted very negatively towards homosexuality, particularly male.

More recently (and arguably due to a pressing need to reinterpret!), more accommodating interpretations have been made e.g. that Paul's criticism of homosexuality was related to men sleeping with boys, not so much men with men.

Paul also expressed what we would consider today to be diminutive views of women. The repercussions of which still exist today.

Jesus only ever referred to marriage in the context of a man and woman. What readers choose to make of that leads us to still be debating the issue 2000 years later!

If you are anti-gay marriage, Jesus is confirming it should be man and woman. If you're pro-gay marriage, then he's hardly ruled it out!

@LaurieFairyCake actually a lot of catholic women do cover their heads in church with a veil called a mantilla. Also, lots of people wear veils when getting married.

Well yes, and Moslems and Jews don't eat meat and dairy together

And some men do beat their wives with a stick

It doesn't mean that veils/sticks/no meat and dairy together is REQUIRED

Just like being anti-gay is not REQUIRED of Christians

@LaurieFairyCake
If that’s the case then what’s the point in religion and being married in a church anyway? If you can just pick and choose what you want from a religion then surely it’s meaningless?

Well it has meaning to the people who get married there

Why shouldn't gay Christians get their marriage done in church?

@VeryQuaintIrene

Some of the Anglican communion like the Episcopalians are already OK with same-sex marriagem, so I reckon it's just a matter of time. At least, I hope so.

I'm an Episcopalian and am thrilled that we allow same-sex marriage and openly gay and lesbian priests. We also started ordaining women long before the C of E did so.

You can't just pick and choose what you want, but there are some variations in interpretation and personal morality.

On the whole, religion's the same as any society - there are a set of formal codes (some of which we disagree with break anyway, plus some moral / ethical codes that are left up to us to decide about).

I think most religious people still adhere to things because they believe it is the right (God's) way, when their own feelings / desires / humanity tempts them to do something else.

I certainly hope all churches will follow suit. There should never have been any such embargo in the first place.

I think a state church, that holds political power, such as the CofE should be obligated to follow the law and therefore should perform same sex marriages. Or give up its political power.

Mind, I also think that churches (of all faiths) should only be allowed to perform legally binding wedding ceremonies if they offer those ceremonies to all people allowed by law to marry. If not, then they should only have the power to perform blessings.

Also, atheism is surely the absence of belief rather than a belief system?

Homosexuality is a MASSIVE deal for churches, in face sexuality in general has always been an issue.

Sex before marriage is still frowned upon, and actively discouraged.
Promiscuity is also looked down upon.
The various 'forms' of sex tend to be brushed over, but I think she's a general disdain for anything adventurous!

Of course they are right, it's not even up for debate.

@UrAWizHarry

Of course they are right, it's not even up for debate.

Sadly, it most evidently IS up for debate!

Sadly, it most evidently IS up for debate!

Sadly, the Episcopal Church's support for gay marriage and the ordination of openly gay priests has led to a movement to expel us from the Anglican Communion. I find this hypocritical in the extreme because all other Christian denominations have been ordaining closeted gay priests for centuries. My admittedly cynical view is that what has kept that from happening is the EC's considerable financial support for the AC, which would be sorely missed if they tossed us out.

I don't believe it's true that all other Christian denominations have been ordaining closeted gay priests. In fact, I know it's not true.
That's not to say it's never happened.

Also, it's a far cry from ordaining a gay priests or ministers (Methodists don't have priests) knowingly, and happening to ordain them as closeted gay men.

Hypocrisy in the Church? It's always been that way. But it's pretty basic human behaviour to be hypocritical I'd argue.

The Church is littered with countless schisms and this will be one more. There's nothing new under the sun as Mr Shakespeare once surmised.

@VerticalHorizon sorry but the majority of catholic priests are gay. My brother was at seminary and has commented on this. There were also a lot of issues with alcohol.

[quote goneroguetoday]@VerticalHorizon sorry but the majority of catholic priests are gay. My brother was at seminary and has commented on this. There were also a lot of issues with alcohol.[/quote]
I never said they weren't.

What I argued was that I didn't believe ALL other Christian denominations were doing so. I also said there was a far cry between openly ordaining gay men, and doing so unwittingly.

I have no doubt whatsoever that loads of priests are gay (and loads are not). Similarly in many other denominations.