Is the Methodist Church right to allow same sex marriage? And what does this mean for C of E and Catholic Church?

[Notfeelingsopeachyandkeennow]

Personally, I am very pro this and think its about time!

I have just read that the Methodist Church is the 4th largest Christian denomination in Britain.

So - do you think that the Catholic Church and Church of England will inevitably follow suit at some point in time - even if that's still 50 years away?

And are you in favour of these changes?

@Notfeelingsopeachyandkeennow

What it means is those two both should.
Love is love.

I’m in favour of gay marriage in church, but I know and love many who feel that they just can’t because it wouldn’t be scriptural. I don’t think it’s right that the move to be inclusive of gay people should be exclusive of people who share the orthodox position. That switching one discrimination for another. I would like to see both groups allowed to exercise their beliefs within the C of E with sensitivity and love for one another. This may be utopian, but optimism and utopias are faith communities bread and butter!

I think that is the very essence of the problem at hand, and it's always been an issue in any religion when the word of God is interpreted in seemingly opposing ways.

There are still a fair few people who have been told most of their lives that it's 'wrong', and if not 'wrong', less than good (with the implication it's wrong, without saying it).
It is hard for them to see that undone. It's confusing and I would imagine calls into question a lot of their belief. For some it's the church pandering to secular society.

I suspect those 'old school' (for what of a better term) believers won't change their minds, or many of them won't. They might even go along with the flow, but their belief (that it's wrong) will remain.

[quote Justa47]@Notfeelingsopeachyandkeennow

What it means is those two both should.
Love is love.[/quote]
Hmm?

@VerticalHorizon

The British Methodist church absolutely doesn't hold these views. I was brought up in a Methodist family and my grandfather was as a Methodist minister. I have never been taught, nor have I ever heard anyone say that homosexuality is wrong. They most certainly do not preach it in the UK.

They have done. I've witnessed it.
Can you explain why a same sex marriage cannot be solemnised in Church?

Where? I was brought up as a Primitive Methodist fgs (and after c. 1965 a Methodist), and never heard anything homophobic or detrimental towards homosexual/gay people ever. And I attended a lot of church and church stuff.

In fact I would credit my Methodist ministers for my liberal attitudes.

Sorry your church/minister was so awful.

@MrsFin

Can same sex siblings get married, to avoid inheritance tax etc? Seems only fair.

Why does siblings being able to get married seem fair?

The sisters example is important. One of the reasons why people wanted gay couples to be able to marry was because if one died the other would have financial security and not be left destitute or homeless.

It is reasonable that the same should apply to siblings who have built an adult life together. This was argued at the time when civil partnerships were brought in.

@LibertyMole

The sisters example is important. One of the reasons why people wanted gay couples to be able to marry was because if one died the other would have financial security and not be left destitute or homeless.

It is reasonable that the same should apply to siblings who have built an adult life together. This was argued at the time when civil partnerships were brought in.

Arguably friends too - or anyone that has built a life together where there is this kind of financial intertwining and dependency upon one another.

Yes it's right that the Methodist Church allow this and I hope others move in the same direction. I can't see the RC Church changing in my lifetime. I'm Church of Scotland, we're turning to go in the right direction but it's like turning (something very slow and cumbersome, I've forgotten my metaphor).

My God loves everyone and would change and adapt like the rest of us. So would Jesus in my opinion. He would not want us to be bound by 1000 year old rules and never able to change and improve. Simple as that to me.

Its not marriage in the romantic sense - but rather in the contractual sense - to provide protections for the party left behind. Financially etc.

Its not about incest or anything like that.

@Knitwit99

Yes it's right that the Methodist Church allow this and I hope others move in the same direction. I can't see the RC Church changing in my lifetime. I'm Church of Scotland, we're turning to go in the right direction but it's like turning (something very slow and cumbersome, I've forgotten my metaphor).

My God loves everyone and would change and adapt like the rest of us. So would Jesus in my opinion. He would not want us to be bound by 1000 year old rules and never able to change and improve. Simple as that to me.

I like this :)

C of E yes will follow but no idea on timescale

RC no way whatsoever

‘Arguably friends too - or anyone that has built a life together where there is this kind of financial intertwining and dependency upon one another.’

Yes absolutely. Civil partnership should be available to any two adults.

*Where? I was brought up as a Primitive Methodist fgs (and after c. 1965 a Methodist), and never heard anything homophobic or detrimental towards homosexual/gay people ever. And I attended a lot of church and church stuff.

In fact I would credit my Methodist ministers for my liberal attitudes.

Sorry your church/minister was so awful.*

Well, I'm not a churchgoer, but I was when I was much younger.
I attended a very popular progressive Methodist church and most of the congregation enjoyed a tipple!.

I would not say homosexuality was condemned - nobody stood in a pulpit proclaiming it to be the work of the devil, but it wasn't embraced either. As with most churches, things are hush hush, or passively frowned upon.
Gay ministers didn't exist (not officially at least), and whilst anybody gay was never condemned, the act of homosexuality was. It was considered wrong. This was from the 1970's right up until early 90's when the general change in public perception of homosexuality also started to change.

Let's not forget, 'Queer bashing' was common place in the 80's. The 'gay plague' was not an uncommon term. A great number of folks in the UK had little problem with homophobia, so it was not particularly controversial for the church to poo-poo it either.

In my view, churches are still very uncomfortable with it. It still causes divide. However, they've had to be politically astute and not be seen to condemn it. Some churches have accepted it (I'd be reluctant to say embraced it). Others have tolerated it. And others have tried to find ways to acknowledge it, in part, without ever actually declaring it 100% valid in God's eyes - most likely because there are still significant numbers of the congregation who aren't sure and struggle with it. I think many 'want' to accept it, but because it goes against what they've been traditional taught through scripture, it causes internal conflict within themselves.

'Marriage is the union between man and woman'. The implication has always been that that marriage cannot exist in any other form (without saying it). Now it can. And that messes with the heads of almost all Churches (imo)

@LibertyMole

‘Arguably friends too - or anyone that has built a life together where there is this kind of financial intertwining and dependency upon one another.’

Yes absolutely. Civil partnership should be available to any two adults.

Strongly agree.

@Viviennemary

Yes. I read ages ago about two elderly sisters who lived in a property worth a lot. When one died it would have to be sold to pay the inheritance tax and the surviving sister would lose her home. Don't know if the law has changed since.

That's what I was getting at. I'd read about something similar. Doesn't seem fair that two friends could claim to be in a relationship and marry for financial reasons, but two family members can't.

Would it be terribly inappropriate for me to hand a bottle of communion wine around?

When I say communion wine, it's a 10.99 best buy from Tesco. But it's the sentiment that counts!

Our local cofe school is ok with same sex marriage and has had a few ceremonies. Only the most recent vicar though, the one before him wouldn't do it.

*cofe school and church.

I can't see the Roman Catholic Church ever recognising gay marriage. If they do not belive it is right, and they seem to strongly believe this, then they aren't going to change just becuase another church has.

Why would someone want to marry in an institution that has scorned their lifestyle and the love they share with their partner since creation?

The Catholic Church doesn't allow its priests to get married there's no way they'll allow same sex marriages.

@Bumblenums1234

I can't see the Roman Catholic Church ever recognising gay marriage. If they do not belive it is right, and they seem to strongly believe this, then they aren't going to change just becuase another church has.

Why would someone want to marry in an institution that has scorned their lifestyle and the love they share with their partner since creation?

Tricky one that, but it happens. Some folks are brought up in a certain religion or denomination and possibly commit to it before they realise they are gay, or because in their heart of hearts, they want their church to accept them and keep holding out for the day it does.

Sometimes a person's local church (friends and community) are accepting, but 'The Church' isn't. So people can still wish to be married in their local church amongst friends, and simply feel condemned by The Church, not their actual one.

@YoungestSpinster

Our local cofe school is ok with same sex marriage and has had a few ceremonies. Only the most recent vicar though, the one before him wouldn't do it.

Then he/she is actually doing these against CofE regulations and could be suspended or removed from ministry if reported. The CofE does not even allow blessings of same sex marriages. You can say a special prayer for them but that's it. I'm sure many CofE vicars do surreptitious blessings though, given almost 50% voted that they wanted to be able to do that.

@JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn

The Catholic Church doesn't allow its priests to get married there's no way they'll allow same sex marriages.

It'll become a case of adapt or die out eventually - even if that's in 500 years time. As the world liberalises the congregation will simply fall away if they don't 'get with the programme'

The Catholic Church used to condemn loans with interest.
I don't think that's the case now.

It also didn't condemn slavery. It does now.

Admittedly, something as fundamental as sexuality is a lot harder to change stance on, but it's still possible, in time.

The eternal law of God is a bit of a bugger though (pardon my French!)

I wasn't meaning siblings were allowed to marry. I was meaning the laws regarding inheritance tax. Giving the two sisters rights as regards inheritance tax.