AIBU to expect female only nurses on a gynae ward?

[PanamaPattie]

My vulnerable elderly aunt has recently had an hysterectomy for ovarian cancer. During a telephone call, she became very upset because she had her catheter taken out and was helped to shower by a male nurse. She didn't feel that she could complain as she was afraid of repercussions.

Am I being unreasonable to expect female only care on a gynae ward - considering the intimate and invasive nature of care?

• Spotthedog91 @AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken that's my point... Yet we don't say male primary school teachers shouldn't be working with children. It's generalising and I don't think thags right.*

Except that the kind of stringent safeguarding procedures in place in schools mean that male primary school teachers absolutely would not be performing intimate care alone on a child, showering or bathing them or assisting with personal needs, so it’s in no way comparable.

Agree with @LemonRoses. On every count.

Also, can we please stop pretending that life is the same for men as it is for women? It's blatant nonsense to say so and boring to have it raised as a point of discussion.

@3JsMa

YABVVU. What about male midwives or gynea male doctors and obstetricians? She could request a change of the staff but in the end of he day it's a medical practitioner and they are there to do their job,not because they want to see people's bits.

Ahh, so consent only matters sometimes?

Why is the onus on the woman to object rather than for the male to ask permission?

@Meezer2

Can you explain then, why, whenever I have been in a hospital ward setting there are always at least two or three nurses chatting about trivia around the nursing station. When I was last in hospital an old lady was left on the commode for ages. She was shouting and shouting for the nurse. My bed was next to the station and all I could hear was hilarity and fun!!! I had to physically get out of bed to get someone.

I get this at my Gp surgery too. They claim to be 'run off their feet' yet always seem to be eating cake and having a good old chin wag.

but a nurse is a professional, male or female. Would your aunt have insisted upon a female surgeon and not had her treatment were one not available?

There is perhaps a dignity element in all of ths. I know perfectly well that both sexes of carers are competent and caring and well trained. But I think the older people get, and older people need more care generally, the more they prefer to be cared for by people of the same sex. The carers' sexual preferences are irrelevant. I know DMIL would not refuse care from a male nurse, but I ALSO KNOW she would prefer to be looked after by another woman.

@Comedycook

OP still hasn't explained what the lady was afraid of

She doesn't have to. If she feels uncomfortable, that's enough.

Exactly this.

Also it's not just older patients who might not feel comfortable, there are all sorts of reasons, especially for women, why they may be uncomfortable with intimate care and procedures from a HCP of the opposite sex.

@AbsolutelyPatsy

no good complaining after the event. a nurse is a nurse, there are male midwives also

No, a nurse is not a nurse. A registered nurse is qualified. Not everyone calling themselves a nurse is. Health care assistants are not nurses.

Nurses have vastly different levels of qualifications and expertise. You wouldn’t expect a breast care clinical nurse specialist to be able to manage an intensive care patient, for example. A school nurse probably wouldn’t feel able to perform a prostate biopsy.

A gynae nurse should have sufficient empathy and knowledge of the impact of gynaecology conditions to allow them to consider the needs of their patients. That includes the unsaid psychological needs.

Except that the kind of stringent safeguarding procedures in place in schools mean that male primary school teachers absolutely would not be performing intimate care alone on a child, showering or bathing them or assisting with personal needs, so it’s in no way comparable.

Neither would female primary school teachers, in my experience. Nobody is allowed to carry out anything of that nature on their own.

@PanamaPattie I completely understand your point and feel for your aunt.
Recently I have lost both my father and my husband to cancer involving their genitals and catheters. They both would have preferred male medical professionals for intimate procedures. It simply wasn't available.
Dad had breast cancer amongst other things, he was trapped in a world of pink ribbons and female only literature etc etc. His Tamoxifen was decorated in twee pink ribbons.

The consultant was a woman, she was embarrassed by the woman bias. It's a two way street but ultimately we need the right help irrespective of their sex.

@3JsMa

YABVVU. What about male midwives or gynea male doctors and obstetricians? She could request a change of the staff but in the end of he day it's a medical practitioner and they are there to do their job,not because they want to see people's bits.

I don't want a male midwife. I don't want to see a male gynaecologist either. Obviously, in an emergency I wouldn't have much choice, but it wouldn't be my preference.

@Kotatsu

Why are we more willing (or less inclined to complain) about receiving care from male doctors than nurses?

I think because there's a difference between someone briefly touching bits of you in the process of doing their job (for example, taking out the catheter) and helping/watching you do day to day stuff like washing - one is more easily put into medical care, the other feels more intimate.

As a nurse I think it all boils down to the fact that people are judgmental and presumptive about male nurses.

It doesn't fit with their idea of men and women's roles in the hospital and so makes them feel uncomfortable. I'm not saying this is the case for the OPs aunt as we don't know if she would feel differently about a male doctor.

Also I've never seen a doctor take out a catheter.... (certainly not routinely). On a gynae ward the drs interventions would likely be much, much more invasive than the nurses interventions

@Tightwad2020

but a nurse is a professional, male or female. Would your aunt have insisted upon a female surgeon and not had her treatment were one not available?

Yeah, professional men can always 100% be trusted, and no woman has ever experienced sexual trauma at the hands of a man. How lovely it must be in your world.

@junipertree2
So male nurse on gynea ward is ''damn mess' & ''pursuit of equality'' but a male doctor in the same area or consultant in antenantal/labour ward is perfectly fine?
Bringing up trans issues into this discussion is weird and redundant.We are talking about medical professionals providing care but you make it look like some old fashioned battlefield of weak women vs. predatory men.

@EdgeOfACoin

And it's your decision who cares for you. But many people say they wouldn't accept a male midwife but would a male doctor during their birth.

And it would still be their choice and they should be cared for by hcps that they feel comfortable with, but the reasons behind this disparity should be examined.

HNRTT but I suspect BU with an expectation of a woman HCP for women patients if your aunt did not express a preference. Should every man patient be provided care by only men HCPs if they don't express a preference? We offer chaperones and will offer same-sex HCPs on request but I can't imagine the workforce complications, nor the demand for more male HCPs.

are you going to speak to the ward now op? on her behalf?

Comedycook I had really competent doctors perform complex forceps deliveries in a timely and safe fashion. I wouldn't change anything about my deliveries.
If it had been female obstetricians I'd have equally said I wouldn't change a thing.

@irresistibleoverwhelm

* Spotthedog91 *@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken that's my point... Yet we don't say male primary school teachers shouldn't be working with children. It's generalising and I don't think thags right.

Except that the kind of stringent safeguarding procedures in place in schools mean that male primary school teachers absolutely would not be performing intimate care alone on a child, showering or bathing them or assisting with personal needs, so it’s in no way comparable.

Absolutely

make a complaint via pals if you wish op, so at least they can learn that other ladies might like to be asked the question

Some posters here not only lack empathy but also have very little understanding of consent and the right to have boundaries.

This is especially worrying on a parenting site. What are you teaching your children - especially your girls?

@Grumpyscot92

YABU to expect female only staff, that's discrimination against males wishing to work in that specialty. YABU to expect that male nurse to be a mind reader and know that she wasn't happy if she didn't say anything. YANBU to expect that he would check she is happy for him to help her, he should have asked for consent. If she went along with him that's implied consent.

I have had male obstetricians deliver both my babies and wouldn't have wanted it any other way.
My aunt had a cystectomy and hysterectomy by a male urologist, she wouldn't have had it any other way.

I'm sorry your aunt has cancer

First of all, it certainly isn’t discrimination- that’s exactly why we have exemptions in the equality act. And honestly, do you really think a healthcare provider with compassion and empathy should feel “discriminated” against because a very sick elderly lady doesn’t actually want her vulva and bottom washed by him? Honestly?!

The existence of male consultants and obstetricians are a red herring here I’m afraid. Neither of them would have been wiping your bum alone in a shower. And any contact an obstetrician or urologist has with your bits would have been in a room or theatre full of other people, or at least one nurse chaperone for a clinical exam.

I went with a friend recently who was having a colposcopy and was frightened (you gave the right to gave someone else present too for a clinical exam) - as well as her, there was me and two nurse chaperones in the room while the male consultant did the exam. Not remotely comparable to a man in the shower with you completely naked and possibly not very mobile or in pain.

God people will honesty say anything to try to prove that women should shut up and accept having no dignity or rights, however ill, elderly, traumatised, vulnerable or in pain they are!

@EdgeOfACoin
You are perfectly entitled to ask for female practitioner if one is available.

@Grumpyscot92

Comedycook I had really competent doctors perform complex forceps deliveries in a timely and safe fashion. I wouldn't change anything about my deliveries. If it had been female obstetricians I'd have equally said I wouldn't change a thing.

Oh it sounded like your post was focusing on their sex rather than their competency hence my confusion

@Tightwad2020

That's totally different! Of course she would have had her op as you are not conscious then. Very different scenario.