AIBU to expect female only nurses on a gynae ward?

[PanamaPattie]

My vulnerable elderly aunt has recently had an hysterectomy for ovarian cancer. During a telephone call, she became very upset because she had her catheter taken out and was helped to shower by a male nurse. She didn't feel that she could complain as she was afraid of repercussions.

Am I being unreasonable to expect female only care on a gynae ward - considering the intimate and invasive nature of care?

OP, your poor aunt. Please phone the ward and advocate on her behalf. Women should always be allowed to say no - and no is a complete sentence. I don’t have to explain why I don’t want a male nurse or gynaecologist

Yes exactly. And upthread a poster asking what she's afraid of? As if she needs to justify her reasons...It's horrible

There are male midwives nowadays. Completely unreasonable to expect care from only female Drs and nurses.

I think it comes down to vulnerability. An elderly frail female in a hospital bed, possibly in a mixed sex ward, is on tenterhooks. I really really dont want my DMIL (and she is very dear to me) to spend her last hours while we drive seven hours to get there, that worried and nervous.

Given the choice, I would go for female-only care every time, especially for gynae related procedures. So, YANBU and your aunt INBU.

But you will need to say that she has requested female only care.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken that's my point... Yet we don't say male primary school teachers shouldn't be working with children. It's generalising and I don't think thags right.

I said earlier I think the nurse should have picked up on the lady feeling uncomfortable... I personally wouldn't think that way. Doesn't mean I don't understand others would. However, I do think the OP is being ungrateful to suggest all gyne nurses should be female.

You are being unreasonable to expect female only nurses on a gynae ward. Intimate care is done on most wards so gynae is not unique in that respect, but there's always been the option to request a female carer. Plenty of women don't mind though, and plenty of men are specialists in women-centred disciplines.

What needs to be addressed is why your aunt felt unable to request a female. She's entitled to the care that she feels comfortable with.

@DeflatedGinDrinker

Yes YABU my son had a female nurse try to take his catheter out and it was stuck so a male nurse had a go and did it. Didn't know he could pick which sex he prefers tbh they both do the same job.

Well I'd absolutely defend his right to request a male nurse if he'd feel more comfortable. You should be supporting that rather than suggesting no one should have a right to choose surely?

There are intimate and invasive procedures in any specialty, people on all types of wards will have catheters removed, colostomy bags emptied etc, it is just part of Nursing care. male patients have to have catheters removed by female nurses, urinary sheaths rolled onto their penises ( hugely intimate ) . However your aunt could have asked for a female nurse and would be far more likely to get one than a male asking for a male nurse.

YABVVU.
What about male midwives or gynea male doctors and obstetricians?
She could request a change of the staff but in the end of he day it's a medical practitioner and they are there to do their job,not because they want to see people's bits.

I think she should have been asked if she was happy with a male nurse however it also seems to be the case that most people are fine with male doctors but not nurses even for 'intimate' procedures. Why are we so accepting of men in one role and not another?

@lljkk

OP still hasn't explained what the lady was afraid of.

It's not like 80+ year old's are famous for having no opinions & never complaining.

MN is full of women who seem to wallow in their own doormat status. Am I supposed to always assume OP's relative is like that or may I ask if the lady was afraid of something specific. Or probe if either scenario was true (which I did)

I don’t know her, but I know elderly people are often frightened in hospitals. Frightened of dying, frightened of doctors or nurses being cross with them, frightened of being burdensome, frightened of making a fuss, frightened because of DM horror stories, frightened of losing independence, frightened of losing control over their bodily functions.

Those aged over eighty may be opinionated and vocal or withdrawn and quiet. They are individuals, the same as people of any age. Their care should be personalised and accommodating of individual needs and preferences. Women with gynae conditions often worry about smell and continence.

The fact she felt uncomfortable is reason enough to ask the ward manager to ensure a female carer for situations where she might feel exposed and more vulnerable.

For intimate care, a chaperone should always be offered - I’ve never seen a trust policy where it wasn’t. The male staff member was probably acting outside of policy. That is a concern. It is not for the patient to ask, but for staff member to offer.

• godmum56

Aspiringmatriarch
she should have felt able to ask and taht is sad , but men have been cared for by female staff since forever.
Different dynamic.
why?*

Do you really, really not know why?

Why do men make up the vast majority of sex offenders? Is it because there’s no difference at all between men and women by men just happen to get caught more often?

Why could it possibly be?

Why might men be OK with intimate care from women, but women aren’t so much from men?

Before we even get into why nursing and intimate care has been delegated to women forever as thankless drudge work and generally paid accordingly?

Why why oh why do women do the majority of intimate care jobs, and male gynae consultants have chaperones when doing intimate exams?

What needs to be addressed is why your aunt felt unable to request a female. She's entitled to the care that she feels comfortable with

I think lots of elderly women in particular view doctors and nurses as being in a position of authority and wouldn't want to question them or be seen as demanding

The other concern is the dismissal of elderly people as not having a valid opinion, of not being worthy of asking about chaperones, of assuming it doesn’t matter because they’re old.

People are able to request a female nurse but after reading this I think they should ask beforehand if you’d mind having a male nurse or not.
I think especially someone so old would not be used to having male nurses so would be extra stressful.

no good complaining after the event.
a nurse is a nurse,
there are male midwives also

I work on a hospital and its absolutely fine if a patient requests female only personal care, she shouldn't have felt frightened or worried that a staff member would think low of her, her request would have been respected and nothing said of it. She or yourself can speak to the nurse in charge stating your aunt didn't know she had the option so it can in future be known that patients do have the right to choose male or female carers or nurses.

YABU to expect female only staff, that's discrimination against males wishing to work in that specialty.
YABU to expect that male nurse to be a mind reader and know that she wasn't happy if she didn't say anything.
YANBU to expect that he would check she is happy for him to help her, he should have asked for consent. If she went along with him that's implied consent.

I have had male obstetricians deliver both my babies and wouldn't have wanted it any other way.
My aunt had a cystectomy and hysterectomy by a male urologist, she wouldn't have had it any other way.

I'm sorry your aunt has cancer

Yabvu to expect female nurses on a gynae ward, the Urology ward isn't full of male nurses...
Your aunt would not be unreasonable however to ask if a female nurse could escort her for personal care

I guess some of these posters who think the aunt should put up and shut up also believe that women should accept transidentifed men in the next bed etc, or have a nurse that they have to refer to as female , or that there is no issue with toilets being turned mixed sex. . I DON'T want to turn this into a trans issue, but it's because of this pursuit of equality dogma at all costs that we have such a damn mess in other areas. Women have a right to privacy and dignity because of the historic power imbalance, and because as a sex class they are vulnerable, and they shouldn't need to beg for it.

there are male carers in the community who may do personal care, most gynaecologists are male

I have had male obstetricians deliver both my babies and wouldn't have wanted it any other way

Why?

@irresistibleoverwhelm

I don’t know really why so many people at the moment like to pretend the dynamic between men and women is equal. Of course men don’t mind quite as much being tended to by female nurses, because women have been doing intimate care for everyone forever. But, more importantly, a vulnerable or elderly man is (and we all know it, come on) not very likely to be assaulted or peeves at by a female nurse. Whereas vulnerable women do fear that with men in intimate settings. And there are more than enough incidences of elderly and/or vulnerable women being assaulted or raped by male caregivers for women to feel justifiably uncomfortable and afraid in that position. Women of an older generation may well feel this much more so than younger women who have been used to a more equal society, more sexual partners etc. (which is not to say that younger women aren’t equally entitled to same sex intimate care if they want, for religious or whatever reason).

The bottom line is that even if he feels embarrassed, a male patient being given intimate care by a female nurse is unlikely to feel genuinely physically unsafe or worried about sexual assault. Whereas a woman may well do, especially a woman who is smaller and weaker, alone and undressed with a male HCP.

So why are we pretending it’s unreasonable of women to expect same sex intimate care? It’s very different from having a male consultant (who wouldn’t be doing an intimate exam without a nurse chaperone present anyway); or a male nurse or healthcare assistant on the ward bringing you painkillers and lunch.

For everyone who thinks it’s no problem - what about in a situation with, say, a female child? If your preteen or young teenage daughter was in hospital, would you have a problem with her being given intimate care alone by a male HCP? If you would, why is it different for the OP’s elderly aunt? Is it just that the aunt is an adult and should therefore shut up and put up?

Completely agree.

And that last paragraph needs repeating.

For everyone who thinks it’s no problem - what about in a situation with, say, a female child? If your preteen or young teenage daughter was in hospital, would you have a problem with her being given intimate care alone by a male HCP? If you would, why is it different for the OP’s elderly aunt? Is it just that the aunt is an adult and should therefore shut up and put up?

Are mothers on MN really fine with that?

I always wonder about this. Most gynaecologists are male yet rarely do patients insist on a female gynaecologist for their surgery.

An elderly woman having cancer treatment is very different from a presumably youngish healthy woman having a baby.

You had a male midwife and didn't mind at all. Wow, that's incredible. And irrelevant.