AIBU to expect female only nurses on a gynae ward?

[PanamaPattie]

My vulnerable elderly aunt has recently had an hysterectomy for ovarian cancer. During a telephone call, she became very upset because she had her catheter taken out and was helped to shower by a male nurse. She didn't feel that she could complain as she was afraid of repercussions.

Am I being unreasonable to expect female only care on a gynae ward - considering the intimate and invasive nature of care?

Just Google ‘nurse charged with sexual assault’ and see if you notice anything about the results.

I depressingly got to page 5 and still no female nurses. Google is clearly generalising…

YABU for expecting the ward to be staffed just with female nurses.

But she should have been asked if she was comfortable with a male providing intimate care.

I wouldn't be comfortable either.

@kotatsu I didn't mean women get away with it.. I meant you're more likely to hear of a male pedo than a female one, but also didn't want to ignore the fact that there are female pedos out there.

Lord knows how all the men being treated by female nurses will be coping

I can understand wanting women only but my experience of male nurses and midwives is they've been much more compassionate.

@lljkk

"she was afraid of repercussions"

why? 80-something is not too old to learn to be assertive. Skills always to be gained.

This is one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read on mumsnet. 👏

I think DMIL would prefer a lesbian nurse to an orderly. Even assuming they are equally kind and caring, I know she would prefer to be cared for by another woman. It would feel gentler. And DMIL is a fully qualified SRN, so not exactly squeamish about the human body.

Yabu to expect only female nurses, but she can definitely request a female one. No make nurse should be offended by that ever, or a female nurse if it's a male patient that wants a male nurse. The nurse should ask as well if the patient happy to be seen by them or would prefer someone of their own sex. That's not unreasonable at all and is just decent care. Anyone who doesn't do that isn't a very good nurse.

OP still hasn't explained what the lady was afraid of.

It's not like 80+ year old's are famous for having no opinions & never complaining.

MN is full of women who seem to wallow in their own doormat status. Am I supposed to always assume OP's relative is like that or may I ask if the lady was afraid of something specific. Or probe if either scenario was true (which I did)

@Aspiringmatriarch, if you are not powerful before 80, then you aren't suddenly going to learn the skill at 81. Sorry.

However OP.. I've just seen your most recent post about your Aunt feeling distressed. You're right that the nurse should have picked up on this regardless of their gender. I personally don't see the difference, but id like to think anyone in the caring profession would be able to tell when a patient feels uncomfortable and offer someone else to help.

@Tinacollada

Lord knows how all the men being treated by female nurses will be coping

Sadly some don't cope well with it at all, especially older men. They are sometimes very private and don't like being cared for by females. My dad is a nurse and has had to deal with some men on his own as they don't want a female looking after them. Completely fine for both sexes to think that way.

@Tinacollada

Lord knows how all the men being treated by female nurses will be coping

Men also deserve privacy. However, the dynamic really is not the same at all.

YABU to expect there to be no male nurses working on that ward.

However, YANBU to expect to be able to be cared for by someone of the same sex if that's your preference. You always have that right, but if no one voiced it or asked for a woman, I'm not sure what they could have done differently.

This thread is an eye opener.

Women should shut up and put up with feeling frightened, intimidated or uncomfortable. They have no right to boundaries concerning their bodies. And if they really cannot bring themselves to accept male intimate care (regardless of your reasons or personal experiences) the onus is on them to find your voice and tell that male so and if they feel unable to to that, tough shit.

This is misogyny.

And this comment is possibly the worst I’ve ever seen:
why? 80-something is not too old to learn to be assertive. Skills always to be gained.

Can you talk to the ward about it. It's absolutely reasonable to request a female nurse. I understand why she would have found it difficult, I feel I'm usually fairly confident and outspoken but even though it made me massively uncomfortable I let male Drs examine me in labour because i was too embarrassed to say no. Still feel sick thinking about it.

OP still hasn't explained what the lady was afraid of

She doesn't have to. If she feels uncomfortable, that's enough.

YANBU.

And to all those saying she is unreasonable because she should have requested it - No. ITS very difficult to request a female nurse after you're presented with a man. You would have to effectively say to the man "no, I don't want you, I don't trust you, I want a woman" and he might take offence, and you'd be seen as awkward.

There is a reason that it is common for intimate or sensitive female-specific issues for services to specify that a female HCP will be provided, eg mammograms, smear tests, nurses at the sexual health clinic, etc. It's because it is recognised that female patients are in a vulnerable position when it's a gynae/breast screening; it's recognised that it's extremely difficult for vulnerable patients to speak up for themselves when they are presented with a male in a position of power over them; it's recognised that women, when put in that position unexpectedly and they feel like they couldn't say no, that that can often be a traumatising experience which makes women unlikely to return for other similar appointments they might need in future in case it's a man again.

That's why it should be a female for sensitive issues.

YANBU OP.

[quote Spotthedog91]@kotatsu I didn't mean women get away with it.. I meant you're more likely to hear of a male pedo than a female one, but also didn't want to ignore the fact that there are female pedos out there.[/quote]
And why are you more likely to hear about it?

Dear God, I never knew what people meant when they said MN was a nest of vipers until I read this thread.

Lack empathy? I think most of you wouldn’t know empathy if it hit you over the head and shouted “empathy here’.

OP, your poor aunt. Please phone the ward and advocate on her behalf. Women should always be allowed to say no - and no is a complete sentence. I don’t have to explain why I don’t want a male nurse or gynaecologist.

@Aspiringmatriarch

she should have felt able to ask and taht is sad , but men have been cared for by female staff since forever. Different dynamic.

why?

It's v difficult.
Of course someone (of the same sex) should ask if she minds proceedings being done by either sex or if they would prefer same sex in a discrete way so the patient feels comfortable.
However in some cases there may not be a HCP of the same sex available to do a basic procedure but there may be time factors at play. ATM we know the NHS need patients out to free up beds, we know they are stretched and short staffed. It's a horrific situation.

Yes YABU my son had a female nurse try to take his catheter out and it was stuck so a male nurse had a go and did it. Didn't know he could pick which sex he prefers tbh they both do the same job.

I don’t know really why so many people at the moment like to pretend the dynamic between men and women is equal. Of course men don’t mind quite as much being tended to by female nurses, because women have been doing intimate care for everyone forever. But, more importantly, a vulnerable or elderly man is (and we all know it, come on) not very likely to be assaulted or peeves at by a female nurse. Whereas vulnerable women do fear that with men in intimate settings. And there are more than enough incidences of elderly and/or vulnerable women being assaulted or raped by male caregivers for women to feel justifiably uncomfortable and afraid in that position. Women of an older generation may well feel this much more so than younger women who have been used to a more equal society, more sexual partners etc. (which is not to say that younger women aren’t equally entitled to same sex intimate care if they want, for religious or whatever reason).

The bottom line is that even if he feels embarrassed, a male patient being given intimate care by a female nurse is unlikely to feel genuinely physically unsafe or worried about sexual assault. Whereas a woman may well do, especially a woman who is smaller and weaker, alone and undressed with a male HCP.

So why are we pretending it’s unreasonable of women to expect same sex intimate care? It’s very different from having a male consultant (who wouldn’t be doing an intimate exam without a nurse chaperone present anyway); or a male nurse or healthcare assistant on the ward bringing you painkillers and lunch.

For everyone who thinks it’s no problem - what about in a situation with, say, a female child? If your preteen or young teenage daughter was in hospital, would you have a problem with her being given intimate care alone by a male HCP? If you would, why is it different for the OP’s elderly aunt? Is it just that the aunt is an adult and should therefore shut up and put up?

*peeves? Perved at, blooming autocorrect fail!