AIBU to expect female only nurses on a gynae ward?

[PanamaPattie]

My vulnerable elderly aunt has recently had an hysterectomy for ovarian cancer. During a telephone call, she became very upset because she had her catheter taken out and was helped to shower by a male nurse. She didn't feel that she could complain as she was afraid of repercussions.

Am I being unreasonable to expect female only care on a gynae ward - considering the intimate and invasive nature of care?

And I am sorry that you were left without care Cookies47. I hope that you were then properly cared.

To many many people, either not having the choice of the sex of your care giver for certain aspects of your care, or not feeling that you can even ask, is immensely distressing.

I had the worst period of my life ( turned out to be my last one) on the night of my mastectomy, blood everywhere. I was half delirious with a migraine brought on by the anaesthetic and throwing up constantly. I will forever bless the male nurse that changed my catheter bag, cleaned me up hour after hour, checked my reconstruction and generally dealt with me through the hardest night I’ve ever had. I don’t think the gender of the nurse is important, it is their skill and compassion that counts.

@gorngss

To those saying that the sex of the nurse shouldn't matter and a nurse is a nurse: Would you be comfortable if you had a teenage daughter in a situation where she needed intimate care in hospital, and a male nurse showered and changed her?

Or is only older women who need to shut up and get with the program?

This would not concern me, I have two teenage DDs . I accept that it may concern them though.

The sex, not gender, of the nurse matters to me and I expect that to be taken into consideration.

@Cookies47

A male nurse shouldn't cause her any distress. A nurse is a nurse. Baffled by anyone saying anything different. YABU to expect only female nurses on her ward. I'm sure if someone requested a female nurse for her, it could be arranged, but by the sounds of it, the poor male nurse hadn't done anything wrong except having the wrong body parts? I'm sure he is capable and qualified!

I don't like men I don't know and trust touching me. This is trauma related. Their role or the reasons why they're touching me don't matter that much, I can't switch off the anxiety and distress because there's a good reason why it's happening.

And I have been treated by men when I've felt there was no other option, but as I've said that comes at a cost to my mental health but perhaps you don't consider that important? Your post implies it's not something you're taking into account.

"Make some wards" not Edwards damn autocorrect

What’s the point of being given the choice to ask for male or female staff nowadays with tall the gender change stuff going on?

Someone with a female name, female looking face, female sounding voice, female affectations, and huge fake boobs, can still have original male genitalia underneath their nurse outfit, and identify as a woman despite being born male. You just wouldn’t know (shrug emoji).

Having said all that, after a horrible experience with a male obs (my fault, I didn’t know what this procedure involved, and his name was foreign and sounded female) (forgotten what the procedure is called but they put their hand inside you towards the cervix to kickstart the birth when you’re over your due date) I will always ask whether a female medical staff ‘identifies as female’ or is biologically born female for intimate routine procedures nowadays.

YABU if you only want the nurses to be female and not the doctors and surgeons.
No one is being unreasonable to ask for female staff performing intimate care, but why only the nurses and not the gynaecologist or surgeon?

WeatherSystems that's interesting. I wonder if the situation plays a part? I know my dad (76) would hate to go for his annual 'man check' with a female doctor. The gentlemen in the stroke rehab were generally well over 65 and I wonder if this plays a part in acceptance of female nurses doing intimate washes etc as they come from a generation where 'only' women would do this and the men would do 'proper' jobs like doctoring!

I'm so glad we don't live in those times - when I was post C section I couldn't have cared less if the nurse was male, female or Martian so long as I got to feel a little bit fresher and cared for.

It just isn't practical to have only female nurses. I've had smears done by males and multiple internal ultrasounds done by males and I've been absolutely fine with both.
If someone has a problem with it they are entitled to request care from someone of the same sex and this right to request should be protected however to ban males from female care because some people are uncomfortable is just counter productive.

This is one of the few jobs that is still highly sex discriminative - imagine you train for years then someone complaining against you when you helped them just because you have a 'y' chromosome.

A medical proffesional is a medical proffesional, they arent perverts getting of on seeing sick peoples vaginas. They trained hard and work hard to care for the vunerable thats all and their genitals have no part of that.

I was saved by a male doctor when I had a uterus heamorrage, I was stiched by a male doctor after having a terrible tear during child birth, my IVF retrieval and transfer where done by two male doctors and have had smears done by male gynocologists.

Theres absoloutly nothing wrong with it, they are highly skilled profesionals who deserve respect.

I understand why this situation has upset you. But why didn’t you advocate for her when she was admitted? It’s no secret that the nHS is stretched and as you know she is vulnerable and the nature of her condition you should have made your expectations regarding her care clear from the outset. Then the staff would have either accommodated that or if not possible made that clear and that would have given you options. Your aunt is not unreasonable to want a female carer but YABU to “expect” it.

@RagzReturnsRebooted

YABU if you only want the nurses to be female and not the doctors and surgeons. No one is being unreasonable to ask for female staff performing intimate care, but why only the nurses and not the gynaecologist or surgeon?

Erm, because the gynaecologist and surgeon aren’t providing intimate care?!?!

A gynaecologist or surgeon doing a clinical exam or operating normally have other people present or a chaperone can be requested. They aren’t washing your bum naked and alone in a shower?

Not sure why this is so hard for people to grasp. You can be perfectly happy having a male clinician take a look at your bits on an examining table with nurses and your DH present, and still not want a man giving your vulva an intimate wash. HTH.

I just think everyone would be quick to complain if no care had been provided. I've been in a hospital ward before where NO staff came when I needed someone - male or female

Oh right so its not just complete lack of any empathy for female patients but also "we should be grateful for poor quality care".

Dear gods, no wonder women's rights are under threat when poster after poster on a mainly women's forum are utterly devoid of empathy for women.

@gorngss

To those saying that the sex of the nurse shouldn't matter and a nurse is a nurse: Would you be comfortable if you had a teenage daughter in a situation where she needed intimate care in hospital, and a male nurse showered and changed her?

Or is only older women who need to shut up and get with the program?

I was a teen when I had a uterine heamorrage.

The male doctor did a fantastic job even though he practically wore me like a glove puppet, I would be DEAD without him.

The male doctor did a fantastic job even though he practically wore me like a glove puppet, I would be DEAD without him.

Great.

And this is relevant to women having the right to have intimate care provided by a woman how exactly?

I think in this situation it would have been appropriate for the male nurse to introduce himself and to check if the patient was OK with him helping with her care needs that day. Some people would be OK regardless, some would be OK because they had been asked and given the choice, and others would appreciate the opportunity to say, 'I"m sorry, but no.'

We have to get past this, as do the general public. We would be outraged at racism and religious bias against care staff but we find this acceptable? There have been male doctors forever and male nurses are growing in number. They're professionals - treat them as such.

The idea that a person who is uncomfortable might feel that they can't say it because it might lead to someone looking unfavourably on them - where do they get these crazy ideas?

YABU to expect that the onus should be on the hospital to elicit consent for a male nurse to provide nursing care. It was reasonably foreseeable that your relative would be cared for by male staff so if she was really uncomfortable with that she could have told them in admission.

@Soontobe60

It’s shocking that so many posts are saying she should either put up with it or speak out. This is an elderly woman in hospital - a very vulnerable situation. Women are conditioned to not complain, not make a fuss, just get on with it. Well it’s time we stood up and said that we are not prepared to be treated like a lump of flesh with no feelings. If I see my GP and he has to examine me intimately, he asks if I’d like a chaperone. That’s good practice. Where a vulnerable woman has to be showered or intimate procedures carried out on her, they should automatically be given the option of having a female carrying out those actions. They shouldn’t have to ask! Those who say it doesn’t bother them, that’s great - but it does bother many others.

This. I absolutely agree. I have less problem with the catheter than the showering. One is a medical procedure and it can be done discretely but to have to be showered I think might make me uncomfortable and exposed and it definitely would my elderly mother. It would have been nice if they had asked as I think many elderly ladies may have a problem with it but may feel unable to say so.

I think you are often scared and/or in pain when in hospital so are particularly vulnerable and a bit of sensitivity could go a long way to help and a lack of sensitivity can make it a lot worse.

Some of you seem very harsh.

@itsaccrualworld

I think in this situation it would have been appropriate for the male nurse to introduce himself and to check if the patient was OK with him helping with her care needs that day. Some people would be OK regardless, some would be OK because they had been asked and given the choice, and others would appreciate the opportunity to say, 'I"m sorry, but no.'

No. Just no. I am a nurse and if my male colleagues had to do that for every female patient who required basic nursing care they would never get anything done. Totally impractical.

I don't think it's unreasonable for people to feel uncomfortable, unless they are just being a stroppy cow ifs that's how they feel its how someone feels. What is less healthy is this slavish loyalty and gratitude to the worst Healthcare system in the world. You are not lucky to have the NHS, you pay for it if you work and it is a pile of shit. Poorly managed, corrupt, inefficient, creul in its rationing and kills. Time to move on from this soppy adoration and demand some decent Healthcare because unless you are on the dole, you likely will not receive the medical and dental treatment you would get almost anywhere else.

YABU because that's sexist. You can request a female nurse and I'm sure they get asked that quite a lot

When my aunt was admitted to hospital, she was dropped off at the hospital door by her daughter because she had to go into the ward on her own. My aunt does not have a mobile phone and had to rely on the nursing team to pass messages to and from the family - hence her fear of complaining - she was afraid she wouldn’t get any messages. My aunt was operating on and was in the care of a female gynaecological oncologist. At every pre op appointment my aunt was seen by a female member of staff. It never occurred to us or my aunt that there would be male HCP working on a gynae ward. The family did not feel the need to advocate for her because we and my aunt assumed there would be a female team. We didn’t find out about the male member of staff until my aunt came home and was crying as she told her daughter about the catheter and shower.

@PanamaPattie

When my aunt was admitted to hospital, she was dropped off at the hospital door by her daughter because she had to go into the ward on her own. My aunt does not have a mobile phone and had to rely on the nursing team to pass messages to and from the family - hence her fear of complaining - she was afraid she wouldn’t get any messages. My aunt was operating on and was in the care of a female gynaecological oncologist. At every pre op appointment my aunt was seen by a female member of staff. It never occurred to us or my aunt that there would be male HCP working on a gynae ward. The family did not feel the need to advocate for her because we and my aunt assumed there would be a female team. We didn’t find out about the male member of staff until my aunt came home and was crying as she told her daughter about the catheter and shower.

So because the staff she'd seen so far were women, you all just assumed that it was a female only ward?

That's a really, really odd assumption to make. I can understand your Aunt making the assumption while dealing with all of the other stress she was going through, and not really thinking about it too much.

We don't live in a country or culture with strictly sex segregated spaces, if you're in the UK? Surely you're aware that there are male gynaecologists, oncologists, doctors and nurses working in the NHS, so why would you think that this specific ward was female only?

I'm not trying to have a go, I'm just really puzzled by this. It seems like such a bizarre thing to think so I'm curious where you got the idea from!