To feel like looking 'average' these days is bloody hard work?

[JustGiveMeGin]

Disclaimer: I had a similar thread in style and beauty when I wasn't feeling my best. I have definitely made peace with how I look and this is NOT a woe is me thread 🤣
To even look average I have to dye the greys out of my hair, have my eyelashes and eyebrows tinted (did I mention greys?) Remove hair from underarms, legs, bikini area. Spray tan couple of times a week, moisturise after every shower (daily). Wash, conditon and blow dry hair daily. Anti wrinkle face cream twice daily after cleansing. That's just the basics....I can and do go out without makeup bit I feel better with: cc cream, face powder, bronzer, blusher, eyebrow pencil, mascara and lipstick.
To me I feel like I should look like a fucking goddess after all that effort but sadly I still sit in the firmly average camp!
Does anyone get what I mean or have I finally gone off my rocker for good?

Funnily enough when I was undergoing cancer treatment I spent a fair bit of time researching everything to do with wigs...

I only said I personally think women look better with make up on, that is a personal opinion, same as saying I prefer people with their hair up, or hair down or something. It isn't saying people aren't good enough without makeup.

I haven't seen anyone on here who have said that women who don't wear make up all look awful or should always wear make up. Personally I couldn't give a shit what anyone else does.

Someone asked about defining 'better'. My personal opinion is that I think people look nicer with make up, obviously I havent met every person in the world so only out of a small number of people I am basing that on. I dont understand why people can't have a preference, doesnt mean they are judging people.

I 100% look better with make up. Without question.

I have pretty uneven, scarred and pasty skin, lips the colour of dead salmon and sparse eyebrows.

I don't wear heavy make up, bit it makes a huge difference.

Doing my hair comes a close second.

I 100% look better with make up. Without question.
Me too. I've been a bit lazy with self maintenance lately.

I only said I personally think women look better with make up on, that is a personal opinion, same as saying I prefer people with their hair up, or hair down or something. It isn't saying people aren't good enough without makeup
There's a difference between stating a preference on hairstyles and saying half the population look better with make up.
What's wrong with 50% of the population that they're 'improved' by superficially altering their face?
Who decides what these awful flaws are that need fixing? Who decides what improvements are needed in order for us all to look 'better?

It's partly fashion and culture, I think. My sense of what looked fantastically good in the 80s is completely different to what I think looks good now. Now I am really enjoying running myself I like an outdoors sports aesthetic whereas previously I was indifferent to it and the look I liked was more fashion lead. There is a bit of a tribal element too, i think and also what you get accustomed to seeing. When I am thinner myself I notice more when people are overweight.

I see where you're coming from on style choices and preferring a particular look on yourself, but that's still different from deciding that 50% of earth's population look better with make up. Really it translates as 50% of the world's population look better with makeup, when better is defined as whatever people in the beauty industry say women should look like at any given time.
The emperor has no clothes on. There has to be a revolving door of insecurities to push on women because otherwise women will stop spending their money trying to fix the problem, and the goalposts have to keep moving so women (as a class) are never fully fixed. When looking 'better' is an arbitrary standard pushed on women, isn't it a good idea to start challenging the idea that we have an endless lists of problems?

When looking 'better' is an arbitrary standard pushed on women, isn't it a good idea to start challenging the idea that we have an endless lists of problems?

I think the idea is already frequently challenged. I think also, as I said earlier, we have to be careful over not heaping more problems onto individual women whereby they are made to feel guilty over liking a particular aesthetic or having a particular grooming routine due to an idealogical ideal. It is important, I feel, always to pay attention to the scale of the issue at hand. One person's pleasant distraction, therapeutic confidence booster or personal expression is another's quite serious dysmorphia.

Which is my point - those with dysmorphia and who use beauty culture therapeutically (as I remember my mum doing when undergoing chemo, so I can see it's an important thing) - we should not vilify anyone who does this. But those of us who see it as "harmless self expression" or even "I've let myself go a bit lately" SHOULD have their opinions gently and kindly challenged. Because if we don't wake up to this we are in fact complicit in making other women feel not good enough.

And possibly, in the grand scheme of things, making other people's body dysmorphia worse!

I think it is as important for young men these days, they're under so much pressure to be beautiful too.
The sculptured body, sun tan, hair.
My friend is out the door doing perms for young men.
I think I look better, feel good with makeup but rarely wear it.

grasstreeleaf
If individual women make whatever choice they want then that's up to them, even if all our choices are a product of the society we live in.

When individual women decide that half the world's population looks 'better' with make up then that isn't about their choices and their individual look. It can be dressed up as there's nothing bad about people who don't wear make up, but..., but it's still grounded in the fundamental belief that women in natural women form are somehow flawed.

it's fine if some women don't, but women look better when they transform several areas of their appearance based on an ever changing set of goalposts is something that needs to be repeatedly challenged because each time any of us promote this, we're complicit in pushing a game than women cannot win.

If individual women make whatever choice they want then that's up to them, even if all our choices are a product of the society we live in.

Absolutely, I agree.

When individual women decide that half the world's population looks 'better' with make up then that isn't about their choices and their individual look. It can be dressed up as there's nothing bad about people who don't wear make up, but..., but it's still grounded in the fundamental belief that women in natural women form are somehow flawed.

Now, I do agree in part with this point. However, I think we can acknowledge we all actually have flaws and experience afflictions/infirmities from time to time. This is normal and natural. Not everyone likes to expose their vulnerabilities to society at large. It is part of our own personal confidential information. So I wear padding in my bra to conceal the fact I've had a mastectomy, I wore a wig when I lost my hair during chemo and drew my eyebrows on with makeup. I didn't want to constantly feel like a walking cancer patient so I made sure that's not what l looked like. Beauty products can be therapeutic too, my skin is dry and sensitive from going through the menopause - moisturisers and body oils help. Lip products help stop my lips being dry and breaking up. Face powder stops my face being sweaty and shiny from hot flushes, and I appear less red. So yes, my natural state has drawbacks or flaws and beauty products help me feel more comfortable.

is something that needs to be repeatedly challenged because each time any of us promote this, we're complicit in pushing a game than women cannot win.

We're all complicit just by being members of society. People will compare themselves to us. If I wear no makeup but conform to other societal beauty standards such as being slim and toned, I'm a walking reinforcement of the standard. It may inspire some people towards a healthy way of achieving this but it also might reinforce someone else's dysmorphia and be detrimental to their health.

Due to these reasons I actually think we have a responsibility to use more care and not speak too much in haste when challenging beauty standards. There is always a context to be mindful of, the playing field is never completely level.

I agree that most people do look better with some make up (personally I find too much or obvious make up off putting), but the problem is saying that women have to look better, IMO.

I haven't seen anyone on here say women HAVE to look better, surely it's up to individuals. It's not like anyone has said women look awful without make up.

@Lweji

I agree that most people do look better with some make up (personally I find too much or obvious make up off putting), but the problem is saying that women have to look better, IMO.

I agree, we don't expect men to dress up and wear make up, some of them would look much better. Saying that I saw a man with his toddler dd with matching top knots yesterday. Does anyone actually fancy these blokes.

Well unless he grew his dd in a pot in his garden shed obviously somebody fancies him. Almost as if people have different tastes.

I'm almost 40. I shower every day and most days style my hair but I rarely do anything else. I shave once or twice a week and I am 100% average but I'm ok with it now. I make more effort if I'm going out in public i might put on make up but definitely never tinted or tanned but this is my personal preference. Personally I believe the more you do each day the harder you have to work to feel like you look different. What I mean is I probably look fairly scruffy most days but it only takes me a little make up and a hair style to feel like I've had a make over. Stop setting your bar so high daily it may help.

I can't be bothered well saying that, I work out a lot and eat well which I kind of think of as my beauty routine, then for the last 10 years I've used sun tan lotion as my moisturizer basically because it's cheap and convenient but I think I stumbled across the best anti aging product on the market as a result - wouldn't use anything else now Takes me 5 min max to shave bikini line, underarm and legs, too....

@grasstreeleaf

If individual women make whatever choice they want then that's up to them, even if all our choices are a product of the society we live in.

Absolutely, I agree.

When individual women decide that half the world's population looks 'better' with make up then that isn't about their choices and their individual look. It can be dressed up as there's nothing bad about people who don't wear make up, but..., but it's still grounded in the fundamental belief that women in natural women form are somehow flawed.

Now, I do agree in part with this point. However, I think we can acknowledge we all actually have flaws and experience afflictions/infirmities from time to time. This is normal and natural. Not everyone likes to expose their vulnerabilities to society at large. It is part of our own personal confidential information. So I wear padding in my bra to conceal the fact I've had a mastectomy, I wore a wig when I lost my hair during chemo and drew my eyebrows on with makeup. I didn't want to constantly feel like a walking cancer patient so I made sure that's not what l looked like. Beauty products can be therapeutic too, my skin is dry and sensitive from going through the menopause - moisturisers and body oils help. Lip products help stop my lips being dry and breaking up. Face powder stops my face being sweaty and shiny from hot flushes, and I appear less red. So yes, my natural state has drawbacks or flaws and beauty products help me feel more comfortable.

is something that needs to be repeatedly challenged because each time any of us promote this, we're complicit in pushing a game than women cannot win.

We're all complicit just by being members of society. People will compare themselves to us. If I wear no makeup but conform to other societal beauty standards such as being slim and toned, I'm a walking reinforcement of the standard. It may inspire some people towards a healthy way of achieving this but it also might reinforce someone else's dysmorphia and be detrimental to their health.

Due to these reasons I actually think we have a responsibility to use more care and not speak too much in haste when challenging beauty standards. There is always a context to be mindful of, the playing field is never completely level.

I'm slim and toned because it is great for cardiovascular and overall health (health is the goal, slim and toned is a pleasant by product) - I couldn't give a sh*t about societal beauty standards.

I'm slim and toned because it is great for cardiovascular and overall health (health is the goal, slim and toned is a pleasant by product) - I couldn't give a sht about societal beauty standards.

Doesn't matter your particular intentions or reasoning behind it or whether you look that way through absolutely no effort, my point is by outwardly conforming to a particular standard, intentionally or not, you help uphold that standard just because you help normalise your particular physique.

But a standard of healthy weight is probably good to normalise

A standard of needing to spend money and time is probably less good

But slim and toned isn't an unnatural standard. All animals are slim and toned unless they do something unhealthy for them.

Much too thin for your age/height is the unnatural standard.

I agree - humans have been a naturally healthy weight for millennia, in the same way that we naturally have hair on our heads.

There have always been some exceptions - the odd person who can't put on weight, and others who are genetically predisposed to store fat, but the majority of the bell curve has always been slim until modern times.

But a standard of healthy weight is probably good to normalise

Absolutely agree. However, some people who feel they don't fulfil the standard often will try to use fashion, cosmetics and beauty treatments to feel better about themselves.

Some people really do struggle achieving societal beauty standards, including healthy weight. And some people are quite simply born that way. All I am saying is that we should be sensitive to the fact people do have different starting points and struggles and instead of accusing them of being complicit in a patriarchal exploitative industry we should be more sympathetic.