To move away and leave elderly in-laws behind?

[Summerplans7]

DH’s company has been talking to him about the chance of a transfer abroad. His job is perfectly safe here in the U.K., but the opportunity abroad is a country we have both always wanted to live in (although with Covid restrictions almost impossible to get to at the moment), but it would take us far from his elderly parents.

His mother would be devastated as she is close to our children and has been lonely over the last few years due to Covid, and the health of his his father has declined severely (he has dementia and isn’t really “there” anymore). I feel guilty even considering it. So does DH.

Do you think it would be selfish to go? It would be selfish of course, I know, but these chances only come around once in a lifetime (for us anyway).

All the restrictions have made us crave an adventure more than ever. The country we are considering is also frequently on the top of the list for qualify of life, and places to raise children, making it more tempting. And I have a good friend who lives there, so it wouldn’t be totally alien.

MIL wouldn’t want to come, even if FIL wasn’t unwell, so that’s not an option. She has a lot of friends and a community here and doesn’t intend to ever leave her area. She is actually pushing us to move nearer (we’re not far at the moment), has even suggested we all move in together (not an option for me).

OP I think that your DH needs to be honest with himself about how it would affect him emotionally to be far from his parents as they decline and his Mum is most likely widowed. Too many people are focussing on the practical side but that can be dealt with and he does have a sister in the U.K. It’s the emotional impact that he may not be willing to think through properly.

I have two children and one of the best parts of being their parent is watching them grow up and begin to become their own people. I want them to fly and live their own happy lives. I would hate to think of either one of them giving up a dream for me. I know OP’s MIL isn’t holding her back as she doesn’t know about the possibility of the move, but I wonder if they may find she encourages the move if she discusses it with her. I would never want my child to be stuck looking after me or my husband. That would make me sad.
OP, you need to consider what is right for your own children too and what you think is best for their future. It isn’t selfish for you to consider this move at all.

@579qkghs

Would you move if your DF wasnt coming with? And if both your parents were still around? Not trying to be harsh but it seems that for you - your family is important enough that you are not leaving them behind. I would probably do the same by both sets - but it's easy for me as coincidentally they all live in the same city

Yes - and my DF has urged us to move before, because he knows we’ve dreamed of it. But I think he would come too. He is very different to my MIL - not that that’s a bad thing - and if my DM was still alive he wouldn’t come.

But DF absolutely has the attitude that you only have one life. But he is not from this country and he went on adventures himself.

How can you go? Hugely selfish to even consider it to be honest. Your poor mil with a husband with dementia abandoned by both of her children.

My parents have now both died but I would not have contemplated leaving my dad to get on with it when my mum was diagnosed. Indeed as it became clear she didn't have loads of time left I actually wanted to spend time with her. I was often weighed down with the burden of it all if I'm honest, I had young children who needed me too and felt awfully compromised. And then I blinked and they were both gone. I could have done so much more and will always feel guilty for that but I am now so glad I was present as much as I was.

Sorry I should have said upthread - it’s Canada!

I wouldnt, but thats my situation.

However, your dad would go too? Your MIL is wealthy enough to have care for herself if needed?

Yes it is selfish but we only get one life.

It does, to some extent, depend on where it is. If getting home involves a one or two hour flight, flights are frequent and not prohibitively expensive , it’s nowhere near as big a deal as it would be if you moved to New Zealand, for example.

I’d go, but I tend towards the idea that children don’t really owe their parents anything. Those parents chose to have children and must accept they will live their lives as they see fit. That said, I want very much for my parents to know I’m there if they really need me, as I know they’re there for me. But that’s out of mutual love and not from a sense of duty.

I was reading a thread on here and someone was bitterly decrying their parents because once all their children had left home, the parents took off to Australia. I had some sympathy with the parents as once you have children, if you are a good parent, you are very much tied down for years and have to give huge consideration to any significant move and whether schooling will be disrupted or inadequate if you move. I can imagine the glee with which they greeted their new-found freedom when the children all left home, though I accept their move does have significance in how much time they will manage with any grandchildren.

I feel that if you let consideration for others rule over everything, you could end up living a very boring and restricted life. If this is something you think would benefit you and your children, then go for it. I’m in a Scandi country and had a chance to move home during COVID, which I didn’t take. Some regrets (aren’t there always?) but on the whole, I have chosen to live here because I think it offers a better potential future for my children.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

I wouldn't go. She'll need emotional support and it doesn't sound like she will be getting that from SIL. It doesn't matter that she doesn't need physical support, it does matter that she'll be dealing with the emotional toll of being married to someone with dementia pretty much alone. If it's Australia, it doesn't sound easy at all to have an aged parent to come and visit so it doesn't sound like you'll be seeing her much at all.

I think I'd really struggle with this. Being a Carer for a partner in old age is incredibly difficult, physically and mentally.
If I went I'd want to help them set up some kind of assistance, and arrange to visit regularly so she has something to look forward to.

My sibling is abroad and they wish they were here to see our mother who is dreadfully poorly. They don't know when they'll be able to visit due to Covid and I know each time they go they think it might be the last time they see our parents. On a purely selfish note I'm a bit cheesed off I've been left to deal with everything and find it completely overwhelming at times.

Canada is a lot less big of a deal than Australia or New Zealand. That flight, to us, as Kiwis, felt a bit of a doddle, given our usual 40 hour stint!

Ok, I only asked because I know that when my parents left their country, a key dynamic was that my mother's parents were both dead and my mother actively disliked her mother-in-law - so it was a good way to escape.

Having now lived in six different countries, I would only do it if I could absolutely guarantee a much much higher quality of life for my kids as adults if that make sense. It's not really worth it for when they are kids, because honestly, most of the time kids just enjoy what they have. The problem with the UK is that adult quality of life is terrible so if you could guarantee that, then go for it. Otherwise, realistically other countries are perfectly nice but maybe not worth leaving elderly parents for.

However, I do come from a culture where adult kids are seen to have responsibility and duty for their elderly parents and we did come back from our last stint abroad to be with ours. I have to say that I do feel quite a lot of guilt when it comes to DC because their quality of life in adulthood will be so much worse than if we had stayed abroad. It's a tough dilemma. On reflection, we probably should have stayed living abroad and just came over once a month but this was in Europe and we earned well so could afford to pop over on the plane and come back.

If your in laws were in good health I’d say yes, go for it.

But the fact your FIL has dementia and you’re MIL mousy be needing all the support she can get, I’d say no.

I couldn’t leave my parents in a situation like that, so I wouldn’t treat my in laws like it either.

I have adult children and young grandchildren. If they got an opportunity like yours I'd be encouraging them to take it. I didn't have them to take care of me in my old age. I want them to be happy and my grandkids to have great lives. That's all that matters

questions for you to answer to yourself and DH...posy on here if you like but its not us who need to know the answers.
How happy were you with your current life and prospects before the opportunity came along?
Will you get a chance to try any part of it out before going? Holiday out there? factfinding mission?
What is your exit plan if its all awful ? (been there done that, bought the t shirt, its now a duster)
What precisely is so much better for your circs in the new country?
Any downsides apart from leaving family? Both downsides in leaving UK and downsides about being in your new country...including will YOU be allowed to work? You may not want to now but you never know.
Don't believe yourselves if you say oh no downside its going to be all fabulousness and unicorn farts because it won't be.

The reason i am so harsh about this is DH and I went to America with his job. We had a (paid for) scoping out visit, left the older (mother and in laws) family in good health and hands when we went, had a stellarly excellent salary and benefits package and its still was a disaster. Luckliy we had an exit plan and apart from 2 horrible years, no lasting bad effects....but you need to be aware.

25+ year expat here. Mother in declining health in US (East Coast). I am not in same position as (i) my parents were young-ish and in good health when I moved to UK and (ii) my mother is a chronic (40+ years) alcoholic, so our relationship is . . . complicated.

This is ultimately up to your DH. Until COVID, I was flying to the US every 3-4 months, which seemed a reasonable balance, but was not easy on my family here or on me. I have just recently returned from my first visit in 18 months, and my mother's health has taken a real hit. It's very sad and it is emotionally tough, but moving back or moving her over has not been an option for many reasons. Your DH is the one who will have to live with this. I would caution that the older I get, the more exhausting the trip is, and it is tough with a flexible but full time job and two teenagers to manage it all. I'm absolutely wrecked for a week on either side of a week long trip every three-four months. THAT will affect your family's quality of life too. Think hard about this.

@Summerplans7

Sorry I should have said upthread - it’s Canada!

oh thats like 7hrs direct flight! thats so much better than aus/nz (24hrs + unlikely direct) - I would lean towards going!

I don't think it would be selfish to go: I think to live somewhere you have always wanted to live and take up the chance of a lifetime is the right thing for your own unit. I work with mainly elderly people in the community and often as their health declines the relationship between elderly parents and their adult sons and daughters changes to becoming caregivers/receivers and is incredibly hard for both. Parents will confide in me about how guilty they feel about the impact on their son/daughter and sons/daughters and their partners carry can feel guilty at feeling resentful that their middle years, when they planned to enjoy new freedoms are dominated by feeling responsible for a parent. It is not a happy way of being for any. Where family are far away I would suggest it is worth seeing if they will pay someone they trust to come into their home and cook a meal, do a bit of cleaning, laundry, shopping, taking out for a walk etc as this meets the need for help and social contact without complications. Social Care will have a list of home care agencies and word of mouth is the best recommendation. You say MIL has a lot of friends in the community and so she will not be alone and while it won't be easy to move I am sure when you're husband was born she only wanted him to be healthy and happy and people I meet in their 80's and 90's still actually want that for their 'Children'.

Could your DH speak to his employers and explain that he would love to transfer but at the moment caring / family pressures make that extremely difficult? Would they be willing to put it on hold or offer him a transfer in the future? More employers are beginning to be more understanding about work / life balance and the needs of carers.

I wouldn’t go at the moment OP. Your DH father is going to decline and probably quite quickly. I would put it on hold until your DH father is in full time care - this will be needed at some point.

It isn’t easy travelling back from Canada depending whether you are east or west canada and Covid hasn’t helped this. We used to see one of my relatives once or twice a year but costs and Covid have put paid to this.

And please don’t take this the wrong way but I think you are looking at it a bit through rose-tinted glasses because of the crap time we’ve all had through lockdowns. I'm not sure quality of life is markedly different in Canada - yes there are some amazing outdoors areas / lifestyles but the work ethic is really intense IMO. What are you going to do out there? What actually is better for your children? How old are they?

@mbosnz

Canada is a lot less big of a deal than Australia or New Zealand. That flight, to us, as Kiwis, felt a bit of a doddle, given our usual 40 hour stint!

Absolutely agree. Canada to UK is a short and manageable journey. You can do it in a day.

Canada isn't that far. It's not like Australia. It's an 8hr plane journey. A week's flying visit is very doable.
I'd look at all the other issues and use those to make the decision.
The reality is it might well be you that is worried about how you will cope with such a move.
Focusing the attention on this MIL might be a useful way for you to get away from your own feelings about the situation!

@Summerplans7

Sorry I should have said upthread - it’s Canada!

I was thinking you were considering Oz or NZ, Canada is much easier to get to and from the UK.

If you and your DH want to take the opportunity then do it, you can always return to UK if it does not work out.

By the looks of it mother in law isn’t father in laws carer they have help and he’s going into a care home soon too.

So it’s ok for the daughter to fuck off but the sons to stay.

I’d go and I have kids and if they wanted to go I’d be cheering them for their futures. I didn’t have kids for them to my carer in my elder years either.

We did this and we had a lot of comments from extended family and acquaintances about how selfish we were and they could never do this to their parents.

Yes our parents were sad and disappointed but we had to do what was right and best for our family and we are so happy! We didn’t ask to be born and so we live our lives on our terms. Our parents lived their lives.

It is a difficult and sad situation but don’t make a a decision you’ll regret. Especially if that means turning down a once in a lifetime opportunity. You and your husband need to prioritise your family.

I think you should visit Canada in the winter before making any big decisions.
I’ve known a few families sell up and move only to realise they can’t cope with the winters and have to come back and start from scratch.