To move away and leave elderly in-laws behind?

[Summerplans7]

DH’s company has been talking to him about the chance of a transfer abroad. His job is perfectly safe here in the U.K., but the opportunity abroad is a country we have both always wanted to live in (although with Covid restrictions almost impossible to get to at the moment), but it would take us far from his elderly parents.

His mother would be devastated as she is close to our children and has been lonely over the last few years due to Covid, and the health of his his father has declined severely (he has dementia and isn’t really “there” anymore). I feel guilty even considering it. So does DH.

Do you think it would be selfish to go? It would be selfish of course, I know, but these chances only come around once in a lifetime (for us anyway).

All the restrictions have made us crave an adventure more than ever. The country we are considering is also frequently on the top of the list for qualify of life, and places to raise children, making it more tempting. And I have a good friend who lives there, so it wouldn’t be totally alien.

MIL wouldn’t want to come, even if FIL wasn’t unwell, so that’s not an option. She has a lot of friends and a community here and doesn’t intend to ever leave her area. She is actually pushing us to move nearer (we’re not far at the moment), has even suggested we all move in together (not an option for me).

Seriously go to Canada! What an amazing opportunity. You don’t want to be planning with young children to be full time carers. You don’t owe your parents care and fuck no to all living together. They can plan their own care.

@Minezatea

I don't think it's about casting aside your hopes and dreams TBH and that seems like a one-sided way to look at it. We all have lots of hopes and dreams. For many people they include spending regular quality time with their family. So for lots of people they stay where they can see their family not because they are 'guilted into it' but because, when you balance up all their hopes and dreams that is what matters to them most. That, for me, is the reason why I'd never leave the UK. Neither would my sister, to whom I am very close. But, of course, that's not the same for everyone.

There's no reason why the dream of spending time with family should be a stronger pull than the dream to live in Canada for OP. Only the OP and her OH can decide that.

As a person with lots of family abroad, the only thing I'd caution is being actually realistic about how you can afford/ spare time to visit and how much family can do the same to visit you. I've had family move abroad with blazingly unrealistic expectations of this and then be hugely upset when actually no-one's visited in a decade as they can't afford it.

Be realistic about what emigration means (e.g. MIL pretty likely to die without you being here, not able to really help her - other than potentially setting up care if she becomes ill - how much technology is really a replacement for actual contact - which depends of course on what you/ MIL actually enjoy about contact etc.). Then you can go in with your eyes open and make the best choice for you.

It's so true, modern society and culture most valorises and elevates those of our actions which are about the self, presents things like going for the big promotion, moving or retiring abroad, moving away to university as being what everyone should strive for, that that is the definition of success, that these are the hopes and dreams we should have. (And maybe we're a bit lame if we don't). At the same time, to stay put, to emphasise the ordinary and everyday and do our best there, to focus on having good relationships above work success, to work to better our own communities or countries rather than move to get away from them - that is not nearly so sexy or glamorous.

@ARealTrip

Seriously go to Canada! What an amazing opportunity. You don’t want to be planning with young children to be full time carers. You don’t owe your parents care and fuck no to all living together. They can plan their own care.

I think you have just proved my point exactly

Yup. Like magic, wasn’t it?

How wonderful your df sounds that he will move with you. He sounds lovely.

It's surely not as simple as this, is it? My parents would have happily moved to Australia to be close to my siblings and niece and nephew. Australia has other ideas!

It's so true, modern society and culture most valorises and elevates those of our actions which are about the self, presents things like going for the big promotion, moving or retiring abroad, moving away to university as being what everyone should strive for, that that is the definition of success, that these are the hopes and dreams we should have. (And maybe we're a bit lame if we don't). At the same time, to stay put, to emphasise the ordinary and everyday and do our best there, to focus on having good relationships above work success, to work to better our own communities or countries rather than move to get away from them - that is not nearly so sexy or glamorous.

As someone who very much values the ordinary and allegedly mundane, I find this very well put. There is no place on earth that can compete, for me, with a weekend at my sister's with her and my kids. We walk, watch TV together and play board games. This is what I value in life. I like to see other places but only for holidays due to the fact that being with family and friends who I've known for 3 decades, is what gives my life meaning and makes me feel connected with others in the ways that I value. A zoom call can't replace that for me. I consider contentment success though and know that in many people's eyes, my life would be a failure. I don't judge others though as they may have different priorities in life. It's all a rich tapestry as they say!

The op asked for opinions so she's had them. It is voluntary y'know. No one is forcing her to post and ask 🙄

She did, no one else asked for yours. As for defensive, I'm not the one who quoted you and got personal 😂😂😂

I agree @Minezatea. We need all types of people in society, I just wish we didn't elevate some people's definition of success to the extent that we do.

Sorry haven't read full thread but I honestly couldn't do this, never ever. I think its selfish, others may not agree but I couldn't live with myself regardless if my parents urged me to go or not.

Waving from Saskatchewan. The journey from VCR to the UK isn’t too bad. Air Transat (if they survive…) has quite reasonable prices. We have family in both Canada and the UK and our child has an equally good relationship with them all. My mum is in the UK but has Canadian nationality so could move here if she had to. Vancouver is very expensive and a lot of housing is quite a long commute into town. Just check you can make the numbers work (we wondered about moving there once but it was too expensive for us). Only you know what is right for your family. Best wishes for whatever you decide.

The thing is @Minezatea, from the OP’s description of her family and. the relationship between her DH and her MIL or with siblings, she just doesn’t have that sort of relationship with them.

Fair enough to stay if that makes YOU happy.
Not fair to expect the OP to stay because that’s what MIL wants.

Just as much as différences on what makes you happy, or thee definition of sucess should be celebrated, I don’t think martyrdom should. Nor should giving up your definition of happiness for someone else definition.

Well, dementia needs the kind of support that I'm sure op and her dh can't give.

It's really important to think about whether we want to live with dementia, other countries have the legislation to allow people to choose when young and well at what point, should they fall ill, they can go!

Anyway... Op if this was my mum I'd go however.. Id make sure to visit home frequently and also make her come to stay. She may love it as a break from her the dementia and caring...

You don’t owe your parents care and fuck no to all living together. They can plan their own care.

How lovely. I agree with theleaf and Minezeata. How often I have been asked where I have been travelling or what job I have, as a first question, as though this will define me. I live two hours from 'home' and wish I lived closer.

I am honestly amazed at the amount of people in this thread calling others 'heartless'. You don't choose your family. I like my parents and will take care of them the best way I can, but I don't 'owe' them anything - they chose to have me and I'm not their life insurance.

They view it the same way and are really proud of me and my career, which is about to take me 30+ hours' travel away. Me and my partner don't want to have children, so maybe in that sense it's different, but his parents have been equally supportive and proud of us.

I've never felt (or been made to feel) guilty. As you can see from this thread, people view values in life very differently - but none are better or morally superior. And given that you are seriously considering the move, I think you should give it a try. For us, it was always the right choice, but for others it may not be. Which is fine.

Go and enjoy it. Live your life.

I can't bear the older generation holding back the younger.

Fair enough to stay if that makes YOU happy.
Not fair to expect the OP to stay because that’s what MIL wants.

I'm not. It was a response to the idea that one should go abroad as that is 'living your dream'. The OP and her OH need to make their own decision based on their own circumstances. I don't think staying, if your dream is to spend lots of time with family, can be seen as martyrdom and that's certainly now how I see my staying in this country. Staying if it's just out of guilt is a different matter of course and that's where the individual decision making comes in. I'm just advocating for a broader (and I think more realistic) consideration of what a hope and a dream are. I'm not trying to dictate the OPs or anyone else's.

The journey from VCR to the UK isn’t too bad. Air Transat (if they survive…) has quite reasonable prices.

I have close family in Canada and in the 8 years they've been there, we've been able to visit once. We did go Air Transat, and they were more affordable than other airlines. We were able to stay with them but still it is unlikely to be affordable for us again whilst the children are still at home. I'm not saying that others don't have more disposable income of course but I do think careful financial planning could help people see whether, for them (and anyone they expect to visit), this will really work.

@Nevth

I am honestly amazed at the amount of people in this thread calling others 'heartless'. You don't choose your family. I like my parents and will take care of them the best way I can, but I don't 'owe' them anything - they chose to have me and I'm not their life insurance.

They view it the same way and are really proud of me and my career, which is about to take me 30+ hours' travel away. Me and my partner don't want to have children, so maybe in that sense it's different, but his parents have been equally supportive and proud of us.

I've never felt (or been made to feel) guilty. As you can see from this thread, people view values in life very differently - but none are better or morally superior. And given that you are seriously considering the move, I think you should give it a try. For us, it was always the right choice, but for others it may not be. Which is fine.

Spot on.

I can’t imagine feeling responsible for anyone but my children. And I would never want our children to feel responsible for us in future years. I would miss them dreadfully if they moved away but I want them to experience everything that they want to. I can’t stand it when parents make kids feel guilty for living their life.

Id make sure to visit home frequently and also make her come to stay. She may love it as a break from her the dementia and caring
For many people, there is no break from caring for dementia. It's 24/7, unless you have family able to help.

@WinterIsGone

Id make sure to visit home frequently and also make her come to stay. She may love it as a break from her the dementia and caring For many people, there is no break from caring for dementia. It's 24/7, unless you have family able to help.

This. I suppose it’s a good thing that so many people are oblivious to the reality of caring for someone with dementia. If I’m feeling charitable, I hope they never find out.

I couldn't do this and leave them to cope alone.

I watched the strain on my MIL of taking care of her two elderly parents without family support.

Her brother moved away as soon as his parents needed help. His charming wife said as my MIL was a woman the caring duties fell to her anyway.

My DH has been talking about post covid being able to live abroad for parts of the year as he can now work remotely. I would have to give up my job, but more importantly there's no way that I'm going to leave my PsIL for long chunks of time just as they are getting frail.

A sense of duty might seem old fashioned these days, but it doesn't stop me feeling it.

Personally, I wouldn’t go. I think the time for adventures would have been before you had children your in laws have formed a close relationship with, and before your FIL developed dementia. My sister emigrated to Oz, I think we have seen her 3 times since because no one can afford to visit each other. By the time she last visited in 2019, dad had pretty advanced dementia and didn’t have a clue who she was. Having a family member with dementia is all consuming and it’s not just your FIL who will need support, your MIL will too. It’s emotionally and physically draining. My mum couldn’t do everything on her own. When dad went into a home and we couldn’t visit due to covid, we tried FaceTime chats but they just upset and distressed him. I helped as much as I could before dad died this year but I am also primary carer of my 2 young (preschool/primary age) kids and was dealing with the breakdown of my marriage too. It was horribly difficult logistically and I am local to them. My sister watched our dad’s funeral over a livestream. My brother was around, but not local and he wasn’t able to help. He said his one regret was not visiting dad more when he was still alive.

It would be different if your DH didn’t have a secure job here, but I’m not sure why you would make the choice to leave given the circumstances.

I think some people who have never cared for anyone with dementia have a very romanticised idea of what it’s like. They think that all it is is giving them a wash twice a day, reading to them and bringing them food while they sit in a chair happy as Larry. Maybe that’s some peoples’ experiences but it wasn’t ours. Our reality was dad becoming incontinent and my mum struggling to change so many sheets, dad becoming violent with mum and the only way that I could get my concerns taken seriously over lockdown last year was to make a safeguarding report to social services, he would turn aggressive and violent every time someone came to the house who wasn’t me or my mum, and my mum turned her back for 5 minutes and he got out of the house, got lost and somehow got himself arrested.

I'm very reassured to read what a family oriented country we live in, that people matter more than places, as you could be forgiven for thinking from the endless threads on this site, that when it comes to children in the UK, the less we have to see them or have anything to do with them the better. OP do you really want to bring your children up in the UK? Look at the quality of childhood in this country, it is nothing short of diabolical. You might be moving to a country where they are actually made to feel welcome. They will be living with the consequences of your decision long after your in-laws have died. Besides, you can always return if you want, there is no law saying you have to stay put in the same place forever.

You can only live your own lives. not the in-laws.
FIL will end up in care, and eventually die. Sorry but that's going to happen. DP will be able to fly back and forth to visit . MIL has friends and a good support circle.

Then (post covid) you can bring MIL out for extended visits with you and ther grands; a total change from her sad time as carer stuck at home with FIL. That will be life enhancing for her.