To move away and leave elderly in-laws behind?

[Summerplans7]

DH’s company has been talking to him about the chance of a transfer abroad. His job is perfectly safe here in the U.K., but the opportunity abroad is a country we have both always wanted to live in (although with Covid restrictions almost impossible to get to at the moment), but it would take us far from his elderly parents.

His mother would be devastated as she is close to our children and has been lonely over the last few years due to Covid, and the health of his his father has declined severely (he has dementia and isn’t really “there” anymore). I feel guilty even considering it. So does DH.

Do you think it would be selfish to go? It would be selfish of course, I know, but these chances only come around once in a lifetime (for us anyway).

All the restrictions have made us crave an adventure more than ever. The country we are considering is also frequently on the top of the list for qualify of life, and places to raise children, making it more tempting. And I have a good friend who lives there, so it wouldn’t be totally alien.

MIL wouldn’t want to come, even if FIL wasn’t unwell, so that’s not an option. She has a lot of friends and a community here and doesn’t intend to ever leave her area. She is actually pushing us to move nearer (we’re not far at the moment), has even suggested we all move in together (not an option for me).

Would he get uk holidays or Canadian ones ? We looked at moving to BC long time ago but at the time my profession only got 2 weeks annual leave a year although the work/life balance was much better than the UK year round. It wouldn't have been enough leave to fly home and see my family just once a year and no other leave for our own immediate family.

Also she's your husband's mother. Not yours. You absolutely shouldn't be adjusting your life and that of your children for his parent. He can, if he wants, or not, but it's his problem to think about. Too many women lose out on a fulfilling life by being stuffed into unpaid care for their own parents and the husband's parents also.

I would never, ever want this for my sons or daughters.

I can see why your head is turned.

Whether you like it or not you have responsibilities now. It’s not cut and dried.

I thought that Canada is pretty much impossible to get to now because of pandemic restrictions on travel?

@ScottishNewbie

You have to live your life. And it seems cold, but you and your children will be here long after your inlaws. The stability, adventures and memories you create as a family as just as, if not more important than any sense of duty.

I feel entitled to have this opinion as I have moved to the other side of the world from my family, and although it is difficult sometimes, it is truly the best thing for me.
A good parent will understand and encourage you to do what's right for you.

But your parents are not just your parents, they are also people that you presumably love and you want to be there for. And if they are ill or vulnerable or lonely, that may be stronger for them at a certain stage of life than the 'go live your dreams' impulse. That categorically does not make them a bad parent. I am a very inadequete daughter and mother in lots of ways but your take on this I find your take on this quite chilling and self absorbed. I also think it's poor modelling for children, that we only do exactly what suits us, that we have no obligations to others, that making fucking memories is more important than showing love and kindness to others. For most people, part of what makes them happy is their web of relationships with family and others, including some levels of obligation and duty as well as fun and shared enjoyment obviously. If we only focus on the 'take' bit I think it makes for a shallow and less rich life

Before my mother died, I wouldn’t have been able to leave her

There you go, OP. You said it.

OMG Vancouver is amazing. Love it there. But my friends are really struggling with a sick father in the UK and being trapped in Canada.

My BIL lives in Florida and when my MIL was dying it was just awful.

I'm not so convinced about the new global world, I do think families lose something.

A relative of mine and his family moved to Canada and they have great quality of life and the children are very happy.

I do think it’s fair enough to prioritise your kids over that of DH’s parents when they have other dc in this country.

I wouldn’t leave my parents due to the relationship I have with them, but my DH’s parents live in SA anyway and other of their DC live abroad.

It really depends on the situation, the relationship, the personalities and the family philosophy - some families are used to moving around, changing countries and living spread out, and some feel the need to Levi in the next village.

I would feel very worried about them. If it is an option for them to come too, look into it. It won't be easy to move someone with dementia, but if your mother has support it will benefit him long term.

@Blossomtoes

Before my mother died, I wouldn’t have been able to leave her

There you go, OP. You said it.

But does that apply to DH? Clearly not or he wouldn’t be considering Canada.

YANBU to consider this. You only have one life and you can’t always get another opportunity with these things. So, I think it fair to think about it, at least. You can’t live your lives for the benefit of your parents. Would they ever want that? If they did, wouldn’t that be selfish too?

My mother would be very sad, but has always said she wants her children to live life to the full, make the most of opportunities and does not want us to limit ourselves to look after her. She would hate to discover we’d turned down opportunities solely because of her.

I think you would need to work with your MIL to look at solutions regarding support she needs. For example, one of my friends orders her elderly aunts shopping online and it gets delivered. They also have an arrangement with local taxi firm about transport to and from appointments and she pays the fare instead of aunt having to do it. They pay for a cleaner and she has carers. You could look at similar things.

In my opinion you have to put yourself and your children first. I went to Australia years ago, spent around 3 years to get all the necessary documentation for a visa, travelled there with my partner and two children. Mum was in the UK, she had diabetes and mild Alzheimer’s. I couldn’t settle there because I felt so guilty leaving mum.
We returned after a short while and a few years later sadly mum passed away.
To this day I regret not staying in Australia and now our chance has gone.

I think there's a bit of a false dichotomy being set up here as IL's needs vs childrens needs/opportunities. Nothing that the OP has written suggests that her children will get to experience anything so incredibly different or qualitatively better, it's moving from one developed Anglophone country to another. And children tend to just go along with what they know, I doubt they are clamouring to move to Canada. They of course will lose what the OP has described herself as a fantastic relationship with their granny. But pitching it this way as kids vs granny/grandad as many have done here means many will naturally come down on the kids side and legitimise what many will see as a selfish and pretty cold decision. This sounds moreso like a great career opportunity for the OP's husband and possible lifestyle one for the OP, and the children of course. That's fine and legitimate but it's not just 'for the kids'.

We were in much the same position.

DH was offered a very prestigious and high paying job abroad but as he is an only child and his parents very elderly and frail we decided not to go.

@vegas888

In my opinion you have to put yourself and your children first. I went to Australia years ago, spent around 3 years to get all the necessary documentation for a visa, travelled there with my partner and two children. Mum was in the UK, she had diabetes and mild Alzheimer’s. I couldn’t settle there because I felt so guilty leaving mum. We returned after a short while and a few years later sadly mum passed away. To this day I regret not staying in Australia and now our chance has gone.

I don't want to delve into it if you don't want to but do you not take comfort from the fact that you were there for your mother, that you did s very good thing? You also have to consider whether your happiness in Australia would have been guaranteed if you had stayed and allowed the guilt of doing so to consume you. Sometimes there are only least bad options sadly

We had to make this difficult decision two years ago. We felt the job market here was not good as nothing else to apply for so felt pressured into moving abroad, my mum wasn't in the best health but thinking we would be able to come back and forth to UK fairly easily it would be ok. Then covid hit and we couldn't leave the country and my mum went downhill and she passed away. Friends in the country we were in haven't seen family in over 2 years and not sure when this is going to be possible. A lot of them worry that elderly parents won't see them again. Don't want to sound really harsh but it is a reality of expat life that seeing family in your home country is difficult and expensive and in the current climate you may get stuck in the country you move to for a while.

Nothing that the OP has written suggests that her children will get to experience anything so incredibly different or qualitatively better it's moving from one developed Anglophone country to another.

? Half Canada is French speaking. The lifestyle in Canada is very different, much more living space, much more outdoor lifestyle, different education system. French Canada on the doorstep offers a chance to master a language that will open doors to Europe etc.

But pitching it this way as kids vs granny/grandad as many have done here means many will naturally come down on the kids side and legitimise what many will see as a selfish and pretty cold decision.

I think you are right about it being a false dichotomy. Surely the kids will have a great life (or not) wherever you are. It's like using the kids to reach a decision you (in general, not the OP specifically) want. Teaching kids how to care for older sick people is a great thing, I feel. And there's plenty of opportunity to take holidays abroad. You can have an outdoor lifestyle here, if you want.

I think there's a bit of a false dichotomy being set up here as IL's needs vs childrens needs/opportunities. Nothing that the OP has written suggests that her children will get to experience anything so incredibly different or qualitatively better, it's moving from one developed Anglophone country to another. And children tend to just go along with what they know, I doubt they are clamouring to move to Canada. They of course will lose what the OP has described herself as a fantastic relationship with their granny. But pitching it this way as kids vs granny/grandad as many have done here means many will naturally come down on the kids side and legitimise what many will see as a selfish and pretty cold decision. This sounds moreso like a great career opportunity for the OP's husband and possible lifestyle one for the OP, and the children of course. That's fine and legitimate but it's not just 'for the kids'.

Very well said @theleafandnotthetree - that’s it exactly.

I also think people who have done similar are arguing their own cases really as they don’t want to think of themselves as selfish.

And I think we really need to learn a lesson from Covid. Hopping on a plane home is not promised to us. My friend emigrated and it has directly meant that she missed saying goodbye to a parent in person or attending their funeral. She’s really struggling with the guilt especially as this parent was devastated by her going.

You're closer to France in the UK then Vancouver is to French Canadian areas. I'm not sure you can describe it as on the doorstep when you're talking about Vancouver.

And on the kids vs Canada thing - I lived in a lot of places as a child and had some privileged opportunities but the thing I remember and cherish most is my relationship with my grandparents. People matter more. Belonging and being loved and feeling adored matters more.

For me, I'm actually arguing that if you do this, you need to do it eyes wide open, accepting the possible outcomes and consequences of your choice, the impact of your choice on your extended family, allowing them their feelings and being able to acknowledge and respect their feelings. Ditto about your feelings, which are likely to include guilt - quite a bit of it! For me, I don't feel guilty, however, for a whole catalogue of reasons, which I'd never bore anybody else with (it'd take forever. . .)

Gosh that's tough, but I have done it. Actually no where is that far away now, you may have to take some leave and one of you be ready to fly home quickly though.

I would also say- if not now, when? When will it be ok?
Father in law may have advancing dementia, but it’s not inevitable that he will pass away soon- my grandfather lived for 6 years with dementia severe enough that he could not recognise his wife and children, couldn’t remember if we had visited last week, last year or 5 minutes ago and latterly was unable to even speak. Even if he were to sadly pass away soon, MIL could live for many more years, as mid-80’d isn’t exactly unusual nowadays.

So, when would it be ok for OP and her DH to follow their dreams? After FIL passes away? But then MIL will be grieving.... and then she would be lonely, so not fair to leave her.... then as she gets frailer, she’ll be to frail to leave... so have to wait until MIL passes away.... and it could be 10,15,20 years down the line. Opportunity likely to be long gone, possibly with a lots of regrets and what ifs. Possibly a bit of resentment too.

Do those of you who think it is selfish to go really want your children to not take opportunities so they can care for you? Do you not want them to seize opportunities to improve their lives, even if you’ll miss them or have to find alternative practical support as you age? What about if that move gave your grandchildren wonderful opportunities and quality of life- would you still want your children just down the road for your comfort and convenience?

I genuinely would be very sad to discover that I was the cause of my children not making the most of their lives and improving things for my grandchildren.

Just go.
As a parent of adult children I'd be horrified if their choices were made with seeing me in mind. Seriously.

Also it is usually very hard for seniors to contemplate moving and very unusual when they do so. The ones who do are born adventurers, not MIL in this case I'm sure. And this is fine, but they can't also expect their offspring to plan their lives around them.

One life OP! It's not a dress rehearsal.