To move away and leave elderly in-laws behind?

[Summerplans7]

DH’s company has been talking to him about the chance of a transfer abroad. His job is perfectly safe here in the U.K., but the opportunity abroad is a country we have both always wanted to live in (although with Covid restrictions almost impossible to get to at the moment), but it would take us far from his elderly parents.

His mother would be devastated as she is close to our children and has been lonely over the last few years due to Covid, and the health of his his father has declined severely (he has dementia and isn’t really “there” anymore). I feel guilty even considering it. So does DH.

Do you think it would be selfish to go? It would be selfish of course, I know, but these chances only come around once in a lifetime (for us anyway).

All the restrictions have made us crave an adventure more than ever. The country we are considering is also frequently on the top of the list for qualify of life, and places to raise children, making it more tempting. And I have a good friend who lives there, so it wouldn’t be totally alien.

MIL wouldn’t want to come, even if FIL wasn’t unwell, so that’s not an option. She has a lot of friends and a community here and doesn’t intend to ever leave her area. She is actually pushing us to move nearer (we’re not far at the moment), has even suggested we all move in together (not an option for me).

@Twatterati

I guess another way of looking at this is - "my youngish, dependant children have the opportunity of a life-time to relocate to Canada. We will of course be taking them and have been offered amazing career opportunities there. We know schools will be better, living expenses cheaper, vast areas of wildlife to explore, more time spent in the great outdoors. I'd love them to have this experience for a few years, maybe permanently, BUT they have elderly grandparents who will miss them and be sad if they go. One grandparent is ill with dementia and the other will have to care for them. Should we deprive our children of this opportunity so they can be here to visit their grandparents?"

OP - go!! As a parent we all want our children, whatever age, to experience a full and exciting life. I know some families always live very close and see each other all the time, but it doesn't mean that is the 'right' way and the only way.

Go - opportunities like this don't come round that often. Your in-laws will be ok and are very selfish themselves if they'd prevent you going, or make you feel guilty for going. Do it for the enriching experience YOUR children will have.

Ha yes! I hadn’t thought of it this way!

Am I the only one who can’t understand why living in Canada is a major dream? Have lots of people who went for a year, they said it was fine but there’s nothing exactly earth shatteringly amazing… “there’s nice outdoors” vs “you’re leaving your mother and sister to deal with the slow death of a father with dementia”, honestly just can’t understand this at all. I don’t understand why the kids would have a better life there, and it’s clear it would be a life with less family…

I’m not sure how many other opportunities would come up. I’m early 40s, DH mid/late 40s. Our children are 5 and 7. Any older and I think it’d be a tough transition for them.

Not saying that to justify going, as I am clearly torn about whether or not it’d be the right thing to do. But I don’t think we’ll do it if not now. Our children will become too settled in school / friends etc, and DH’s career won’t be ramping up in quite the same way.

I always fancied moving to Canada until I found out how much annual leave they get on average.

@annie335

There seems to be a moral obligation to cast aside your own hopes and dreams to look after elderly parents. It's a very tough decision to make and I don't envy you.

I’m not sure it’s a moral obligation. For me it was that mine put me first for years, they supported me (not financially) well into adulthood. I really appreciated what they did for me and the difference it made to my life. When they started to get frail it was my turn to look after them. My hopes and dreams always factored in being there for the people who had never shown me anything but unconditional love.

@Twatterati

I guess another way of looking at this is - "my youngish, dependant children have the opportunity of a life-time to relocate to Canada. We will of course be taking them and have been offered amazing career opportunities there. We know schools will be better, living expenses cheaper, vast areas of wildlife to explore, more time spent in the great outdoors. I'd love them to have this experience for a few years, maybe permanently, BUT they have elderly grandparents who will miss them and be sad if they go. One grandparent is ill with dementia and the other will have to care for them. Should we deprive our children of this opportunity so they can be here to visit their grandparents?"

OP - go!! As a parent we all want our children, whatever age, to experience a full and exciting life. I know some families always live very close and see each other all the time, but it doesn't mean that is the 'right' way and the only way.

Go - opportunities like this don't come round that often. Your in-laws will be ok and are very selfish themselves if they'd prevent you going, or make you feel guilty for going. Do it for the enriching experience YOUR children will have.

Living in Canada is not exactly “the opportunity of a life time.” And it’s wholly doable again if you are that desperate. Children won’t have a better life there, it’s just a country.

And no the in laws won’t be ok. And the DH (if he has any morals) won’t be ok. And his sister, who will have to deal with this alone, won’t be ok.

This #LiveLaughLoveAbandonYourFamily it’ll all be ok vacuous commentary is just ludicrous.

Do it for the enriching experience YOUR children will have.
I feel it's also enriching to help with sick family members.

There's such a difference between leaving wellish-but-old family members, and a MIL at the very moment she is going through one of the worst things that can happen - looking after a spouse with dementia.

OP - Would you be going for a set amount of time eg 2 years and then returning?
If that was the plan, I’d do it.

What does your DH think?

Where in Canada? My sister lived in Vancouver and I thought it was one of the most beautiful cities in the world

You need to forget about the possibility that “you can travel back to see them regularly.”

Since the pandemic it is clear that this is not the case, and at any moment your exit from, or entry into each country could be barred indefinitely.

If you move abroad then you need to do so on the understanding that you might never see his parents again.

people need to be more realistic about living abroad and what that actually means.

Added to which you are leaving your MIL with a husband who has dementia, and who will be losing her son and grandchildren into the bargain.

Sorry but I think that is unthinkably selfish.

Other jobs may come up, but once your ILs are gone they won’t be coming back.

AlternativePerspective completely agree

@Blossomtoes

Your in-laws will be ok

And you know this how? It’s a completely ludicrous thing to say, you have absolutely no idea if it’s true. On balance the likelihood is that they’ll be far from OK.

It seems odd, OP, that you’re horrified at the prospect of moving your children to a different school a few miles away but completely cool with moving them to one thousands of miles away from everything they know.

I see what you’re saying, and this may be part of my relationship with MIL, but her want for us to move close to her (which is honestly only a few miles away) is her way of trying to get us to effectively live the way she wants us to. She thinks her area is better, her way is better, the schools by her are better, etc (I don’t think the schools are better). And she obviously wants us really close because she loves the children.

She and DH did not get at all on when he was young, though they do now. I find her hard to be around, though I do love her and know she tries.

It isn’t a simple relationship.

So, while moving to her neighbourhood would benefit her, it wouldn’t benefit us or the children in a way I think a move to Canada might.

Like I said, I know that is possibly the selfish choice!

So I am not so much horrified by the idea of changing our children’s school when it’s nearby, it is that moving near MIL seems like an upheaval with no gain to anyone except MIL.

It is Vancouver! I have a friend there so have visited and thought it was so beautiful and a great place to raise a family.

The original dream was Aus, but that’s impossible now. It wasn’t in 2019, but I just can’t see it happening anytime soon.

@Summerplans7

I’m not sure how many other opportunities would come up. I’m early 40s, DH mid/late 40s. Our children are 5 and 7. Any older and I think it’d be a tough transition for them.

Not saying that to justify going, as I am clearly torn about whether or not it’d be the right thing to do. But I don’t think we’ll do it if not now. Our children will become too settled in school / friends etc, and DH’s career won’t be ramping up in quite the same way.

Our "opportunity" came out of the blue when DH was in his 50's True we had no children to consider but kids will and do move and settle at all ages. I had jobs but didn't have a proper "career" until after we had returned. "Now or never" often really isn't!

Getting visa’s into canada is extremely difficult even if you have work there.

My neighbour was offered a job there, was on the preferred skills list, and his visa took 3 years to come through. Then his wife and children were unable to get visa’s and he ended up having to come back.

And do remember that in years to come it will be your children turning their back on you with no care or consideration as to whether you die alone or not, just as long as they have their life somewhere else.

There’s no need to move to where she is. You are perfectly able to stay right where you are. Seems you’ve diluted this into a ‘freedom elsewhere vs acceding to overbearing demands by mil’. No your choice isn’t that easy. Stay where you are and do what you can or move away.

I couldn't do it. It's a bit heartless.

Vancouver is hideously expensive. Top 3 in the world I think, I'd look carefully at the package.

You are in a tough position but it comes down to putting someone's needs first- your IL OR your DC. I would have no hesitation at all to put my dc first. What is the long term plan? To wait until your IL are no longer around to then do all the things you want as a family? Do opportunities like this come around twice? If your mil won't move to you, is financially able to provide for herself and FIL then you should go.

Ultimately, I think it is for DH to decide. She isn’t my mother and we aren’t close like that - although I know she wishes we were.

Before my mother died, I wouldn’t have been able to leave her. And I know my DF is supportive, even when the original plan was Aus.

I also know MIL would not be giving any blessing and would be terribly upset. If we don’t go, we plan to take time off over next summer with the kids, DH causally mentioned it to MIL, like no big deal, and she got very upset that we are planning to take the children “for the whole summer”.

I think it’s difficult for DH as he’s only gotten closer to his mother now, but he doesn’t ring her for a chat or pop over or anything, he has to be cajoled into doing that (by me). I think because of their previous poor relationship, perhaps.

I also think it’s difficult for MIL as she didn’t have the best relationship with her children when they were young, but has an amazing one with ours.

We moved from the uk to USA last year. DH got an amazing job opportunity out of the blue that we just couldn’t justify passing up. Ultimately our decision was based on what was best for our children. They have to come first in any decision. You can’t please everybody. My family and friends weren’t jumping for joy that we were leaving, but they knew we needed to spread our wings and they appreciate what a blast we’re having out here. If we’d stayed in UK, our lives/jobs/kids education would have suffered due to covid whereas here the lockdown has been no where near as tough. You never know what’s going to happen in the future so you have to live your life now. Those saying they would never leave? I think that’s easy to say until a fantastic opportunity comes along - you’d have to think about it surely based on your life at that moment.

My parents' children have already moved far away. They don't expect anyone to move back. My mother's mother emigrated to a country alone and lives there, without anyone. She doesn't expect anyone to go out there to her.

I feel in my family people take up these opportunities and are happy for one another, rather than worrying about holding one another back. So it's easy for me to say that I'd go, for sure. I'm not massively close to either set of parents, maybe that helps. I also feel it's my own responsibility to sort out provision for my own elderly care, and that is absolutely not a burden I wish my children to bear. You have to live your own life. You only get one.

In your circumstances I'd absolutely go. Canada would be a wonderful lifestyle (friends of ours went 3 years ago, still very happy).

My DD & her family live abroad (last seen 18 months ago)
We didn’t support her going to uni for nothing. She is hopefully giving her DDs a good life as the world 🌎 is going to change dramatically.
We don’t expect her to come running to our beck and call .

One of my siblings said to us, 'but what if your kids decide to settle for good over there, or come back here and you don't?' That is for our children to decide - there's no certainties in life. Of my mother's four daughters, only one still lives in NZ.

I know for damned sure I want our kids to live their lives according to their best interests, and not to miss opportunities and pass up dreams, because they feel tied to us out of guilt and duty.

It's possibly a bit different for us, because DH's family emigrated from the UK when he was three, so emigration to the other side of the world with young kids obviously wasn't an impossible notion for any member of his family. His mother actually said 'well I've got no moral high ground, have I?! Bless her. And for Kiwis and Aussies it's relatively common to move elsewhere in the world for career opportunities etc. Most of us go back, but an awful lot don't. We're a fairly mobile group.