Father in law won’t get vaccinated but wants to visit

[SquarePeggyLeggy]

We are in Australia. The vaccination program is ludicrously slow and behind other nations, and totally voluntary. We have our first appointment booked for a few weeks from now (first available!). We are also currently in lockdown.
My daughter is a medically vulnerable person.
Father in law is clearly hesitant about the vax. Not clear how anti it is, but changes the subject when we talk about it and makes statements such as: “I live in the country and don’t have kids at school, so no risk to me”. He hasn’t outright said no, but it’s clear, and he swings towards alternative treatments etc.
He wants to visit us “as soon as lockdown ends”, which is likely to be after our first jab, but not the second. We haven’t seen him since January 2019. It would be good to see him.
I don’t want an unvaccinated visitor. I want to say: “we need you to be vaccinated before you visit”. Being older, he can get an immediate appointment. He is 70, he should absolutely get one.
AIBU? I don’t want him here or travelling unvaccinated. I’m aware we will have no way of knowing who is and who isn’t and my daughter will be mixing with people all the time.
So what are people doing with hesitant visitors when you are adamantly pro vax? How do you discuss it?

@YellowMonday

thanks.
the parents and their older children work, older ones in full time education so no way could they afford 3m+ leave.

so that's quite shit, isn't it

*I meant younger ones are at school

@DysonSphere fair call, I may have gone too far with government support payments (I'm very angry and frustrated this week with lockdowns and ongoing vaccine hesitancy). I also think there should be a carrot with a tax benefit granted to those who are vaccinated.

People have a right to say no, but that in turn does not give them the right to put at risk everyone else. We already have rules in place for children who are not vaccinated, no jab no school/no play (childcare) and no jab no pay (certain family tax benefits).

Let's be real, there will be global restrictions including no international travel without vaccination. The same should be for domestic once everyone has had the opportunity to be vaccinated.

Regarding the argument on a communist state, the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) has previously ruled compulsory vaccinations are necessary in a democratic society. International human rights law allows for some restrictions on rights in certain circumstances, such as a state of emergency, and for public health reasons. Interestingly a recent study by the University of Sydney found three quarters of people surveyed supported mandated covid vaccinations. I don't believe the vaccination should be "forced" on people but there will be restrictions you will face.

Obviously there will be exceptions for anyone on medical grounds.

@ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba I can't imagine the struggle, so many Australian are in a similar position.

I was so proud of how Australia managed the start of the pandemic, but now I frustrated and terrified of how the hell do we move on from here? What's the plan? What is the roadmap to living with covid? I don't disagree with closed borders but I do at the ineptitude of our current government to forward planning.

@user1471447924 I'm sorry but I completely disagree with you. If you really think that then you have been completely brainwashed. The elderly and vulnerable that want it are already vaccinated in the uk. This is as good as it's going to get. Fucking get over it and get on with your life

Let's be real, there will be global restrictions including no international travel without vaccination.

Yes because you and others like you, in the desire to be 'good' or heroic - I don't know what it is - fear? are giving them this right Giving it to them. Asking. Pleading. Begging for it. It's a power hungry governments wet dream and the emergence of social credit by the back door. We have already adopted a Chinese solution to a Chinese (alledgedly) evolved problem. That should concern us. It somehow doesn't.

Tell me why you are comfortable giving away to big government the right to request you MUST take something into your body or be restricted from doing basic things like travel within your own country?? Just why?

I must live in another dimension. I swear to god, people fought wars to avoid things like this not long ago, and now people want to impose restrictions on family members, and are happy to live the rest of their lives and their children's lives having compulsory boosters for each Greek letter variant in order to go about their lives.

All this and yet there has never been world wide scientific consensus about how to proceed with Covid. Not even in this country.

[quote wasthataburp]@user1471447924 I'm sorry but I completely disagree with you. If you really think that then you have been completely brainwashed. The elderly and vulnerable that want it are already vaccinated in the uk. This is as good as it's going to get. Fucking get over it and get on with your life [/quote]
The vaccine isn’t 100% effective, not everyone can get it, and it’s not cleared for children yet in the UK.

Brainwashed? I’m a scientist who has spent the last 15 months directly dealing with the impact of covid. Not only have I been dealing with this in my working life, I have been spending my free time reading the latest scientific literature to keep myself informed.

Calling me and other experts brainwashed is a slap in the face. These people have been doing their best to keep you and your family safe.

@DysonSphere

Let's be real, there will be global restrictions including no international travel without vaccination.

Yes because you and others like you, in the desire to be 'good' or heroic - I don't know what it is - fear? are giving them this right Giving it to them. Asking. Pleading. Begging for it. It's a power hungry governments wet dream and the emergence of social credit by the back door. We have already adopted a Chinese solution to a Chinese (alledgedly) evolved problem. That should concern us. It somehow doesn't.

Tell me why you are comfortable giving away to big government the right to request you MUST take something into your body or be restricted from doing basic things like travel within your own country?? Just why?

I must live in another dimension. I swear to god, people fought wars to avoid things like this not long ago, and now people want to impose restrictions on family members, and are happy to live the rest of their lives and their children's lives having compulsory boosters for each Greek letter variant in order to go about their lives.

All this and yet there has never been world wide scientific consensus about how to proceed with Covid. Not even in this country.

Stop with the hyperbole, it’s cringeworthy to read.

It is the right of the receiving country to set entry requirements. You need vaccines to be allowed into certain countries at the moment, this is no different. We need to get travel moving again and the self isolation rules are not going to do that. Why would we or any country let unvaccinated people in ahead of gaining herd immunity? All it will do is force local lockdowns and restrictions, which nobody wants. If you want to be unvaccinated, fine, whatever, but don’t expect any other country to permit you entry.

@DysonSphere because I believe that in the instance of a once in a lifetime pandemic mandated vaccines are necessary in a democratic society so that citizens are protected against serious diseases, through vaccination or by virtue of herd immunity.

I do not believe in compulsory vaccinations in the instance of covid, there is a right of choice by I strongly believe in restrictions. Please also remember for domestic and international travel, this is the workplace of aviation workers and they should be granted a safe workplace.

I also choose not to engage in conspiracy theories and will not discuss these points raised.

@user1471539324 whatever. Individuals can do what they like and should not be subjected to segregation and the like for choosing to decline medical treatment.

I go on the actual stats and not what people tell me. For example last week my gramda had a bad fall and the ambulance driver told my mother not to follow as the hospital was "full of Covid" turns out the official stats was 3. And that those 3 people had just tested positive they were not there because of or even being treated for Covid. This is one of the biggest hospital in Europe. So forgive me if I don't trust how things are being spun out to the public.

@YellowMonday

Very well put. We have to respect the rights of others while we are demanding our own rights. Everyone has the right to a safe workplace.

Likewise, I strongly believe that everyone has the right to safety while buying food, seeking medical care and gaining an education. This is why I believe in restrictions, when needed, and not asking the vulnerable to hide away forever, like so many people want, just so that some people in society can live their pre-pandemic life.

In an ideal world, we should all be living our pre-pandemic lives and the way to do this is by gaining herd immunity and helping out other countries to get to the same state.

Tell me why you are comfortable giving away to big government the right to request you MUST take something into your body or be restricted from doing basic things like travel within your own country?? Just why?
Do people think this is new? I’ve spent my life getting vaccinations to travel to different countries. Getting the top up vaccinations needed to study in the us. Then moving to australia getting my children the catch up vaccinations they need to attend a childcare setting. I’m totally cool with basic health requirements of citizens and have been complying with them since I was born.

@timeisnotaline

I think many people don’t realise this and have maybe lived a more sheltered life. I’ve certainly had most of travel vaccines out there and also require Hep B for my job.

I just can’t get over the privilege where you demand entry into another country after refusing your vaccine, ignoring that they’ve probably not had the same chances as the UK to vaccinate their population. UK privilege at its finest.

I'm pretty sure that him being vaccinated doesn't pose any less risk to you. You can still contract and transmit covid with the vaccination, it just means you are less likely to get seriously ill

@IamnotSethRogan

This is completely untrue. There are many studies which show that vaccines reduce transmission.

Why would you deny her a relationship with her grandfather because you disagree with his vax status? Presumably you won't be stopping her going to school or socialising?

I think that the choice is his.
The risk he poses if you're in a lockdown and he rarely ventures out is low. And given the total cases since the start of the epidemic is barely 30,000 I think that you really are overreacting. I say this as someone who was shielding due to being clinically extremely vulnerable and was incredibly careful, not leaving the house etc. Which given we were having over 30,000 new cases a day by December, I really do think that this all needs to be contextual and in your privileged position, I'd say that him delaying or not having the vaccine isn't that significant a risk. And no doubt your child's peers parents and families pose more of a risk.

I think being angry at someone's parent is absolutely ridiculous when the UK government have not been able to set coherent guidelines, or lead by setting an example is misguided. How can anyone be expected to follow guidelines which don't make sense, esp if the government flaunt them?

I am British but in Switzerland and it's been pretty peaceful here. We have been watching the situation in the UK (haven't seen our families for almost 2 years now!) and are appalled.

OP, I don't know much about the situation in Australia, but as long as he is not clearly breaking guidelines, the vaccine is purely advisory. You make your own decisions for your household.

Op I feel for you, but I find this stance so selfish and thoughtless to your dd.

I wonder how this thread would have gone if
I'm 70 and a grand parent.I'm constantly told because of my age in cev to the virus so had the vaccine. I've tried explain to my dil I'm still at a reduced risk because her dd hasn't had it even if , I cannot take the risk. Aibu or not? I even suggested that cos none of them are licensed maybe sign up for a trial. I live in a remote place and hardly go out anywhere and they are going out daily.

user1471539324
A combination of both would be much more effective, as both testing and vaccines have their limitations. Plus there’s always a risk that he contract covid after his test. It’s better to reduce the risk of developing transmissible covid in the first place.

Sure, there are any number of precautions that, combined, would be much more effective than only a negative test, only a vaccine, only a mask etc etc

So far all we know is that grandpa is avoiding one of these, the vaccine, so to say "that the grandparent has made a conscious choice to not protect his vulnerable grandchild" seems a stretch.

@user1471539324 I think you need to find a brick wall to bang your head against- some people are so blinkered by their ‘rights’ they actually can’t see beyond that. I’m sure these are the self same people who take antibiotics, painkillers, antihistamines, contraceptives, bank online, have smart phones, have medical records. All of which can either be used to track/ invade your privacy or officer potentially deadly side effects - but if course people don’t think like that.

Thank you for all your work you do as a scientist. It must be so infuriating that people can’t understand that we will HAVE to have the Covid jab to go to SOME places in the world.

@Orchidflower1

Thanks for your lovely message, it’s nice to have some backup on a thread where logic isn’t prevailing!

You’re welcome @user1471539324 I’m with you and @SquarePeggyLeggy all the way!

@YellowMonday The person who was admitted to hospital with the delta variant was more ill than she was last year despite having both jabs. Last year she was off work for a few days. This year she’s been hospitalised. She’s 44 years of age. she is overweight but no underlying health problems. She has had headaches since having the jab and hasn’t felt herself.

No one knows at the end of the day. I’ve had both jabs despite feeling like an experiment but if they turn round and say we need a booster they can get lost! I won’t be having another.