Father in law won’t get vaccinated but wants to visit

[SquarePeggyLeggy]

We are in Australia. The vaccination program is ludicrously slow and behind other nations, and totally voluntary. We have our first appointment booked for a few weeks from now (first available!). We are also currently in lockdown.
My daughter is a medically vulnerable person.
Father in law is clearly hesitant about the vax. Not clear how anti it is, but changes the subject when we talk about it and makes statements such as: “I live in the country and don’t have kids at school, so no risk to me”. He hasn’t outright said no, but it’s clear, and he swings towards alternative treatments etc.
He wants to visit us “as soon as lockdown ends”, which is likely to be after our first jab, but not the second. We haven’t seen him since January 2019. It would be good to see him.
I don’t want an unvaccinated visitor. I want to say: “we need you to be vaccinated before you visit”. Being older, he can get an immediate appointment. He is 70, he should absolutely get one.
AIBU? I don’t want him here or travelling unvaccinated. I’m aware we will have no way of knowing who is and who isn’t and my daughter will be mixing with people all the time.
So what are people doing with hesitant visitors when you are adamantly pro vax? How do you discuss it?

@bakebeans

I know a few people who have had both jabs and caught Covid. One hasn’t left his house and caught it from his flat mate who also had both jabs. Another has spent a week in hospital after catching the delta variant of Covid despite having had both jabs. She had Covid last year also.

Which highlights the importance or herd immunity. It’s not impossible to pass on covid when you’ve been vaccinated but it reduces the chances significantly, along with reducing the severity of illness.

It is so important that anyone who has the chance to be vaccinated plays their part. There will always be breakthrough cases but right now there are lots of people who haven’t haven’t been offered the vaccine yet and we still have to try to protect them. I don’t know when children will be vaccinated but right now, long covid is a worry for them rather than severe illness.

@Orchidflower1 sorry but it's not her mums responsibility. She shouldn't have to put her life on pause for others. End of

I assume your FIL is Australian, and if he's here, there is very limited risk.

However, I would strongly encourage you to implement any vaccination requirements that you see fit. But be aware it may not be taken seriously given the low vaccination rate in Australia - well under 5% fully vaccinated. But it may be motivation for your FIL to understand there will be restrictions for non-vaccinated - personally, I interested to see if the Government will roll this out to cross border travel/tax benefits/Centrelink benefits/etc (fingers crossed they do).

It drives me mad to see such a vaccination hesitancy within the at risk groups. I almost cried when my job was prioritised into 1B, second Pfizer in two weeks . I really want borders to reopen some time this decade!

@bakebeans imagine how sick these people could have been if they weren't vaccinated.

OP you can't force him to have the vaccine; but equally he can't force you to put your CEV at risk. So if he wants to visit it's a yes - when he's vaccinated. Until then he's welcome to Skype/zoom etc

@Soontobe60

You cannot force people to get vaccinated. It’s their choice. And refusing to see them if they don’t get vaccinated is tantamount to blackmail. You do realise that even when vaccinated people can become infected and pass the infection on don’t you? So being vaccinated is no absolute guarantee that you’re Covid free. You can only be ‘pro vax’ for yourself - you cannot force your views on others. You could always get him to do a PCR test when he visits.

It's not blackmail. It's about not feeling comfortable or safe having an unvaccinated person near you. Also, I hate the fact that the anti vaxers are letting the rest of us protect them. Two family members won't get vaccinated, they give no reason really. They still want to visit mum/me/my family so have to sit in mums garden and sd from us and visits are kept to a minimum. It's incredibly selfish.

[quote wasthataburp]@Orchidflower1 sorry but it's not her mums responsibility. She shouldn't have to put her life on pause for others. End of [/quote]
Do you understand that working together to protect society helps speed up a return to freedom?

Imagine being so self-absorbed that you are unwilling to help preserve the lives of the vulnerable. Imagine a grandparent unwilling to do the bare minimum to protect their grandchild. Of course everyone has rights, but the parents here also have every right to protect their child.

I mean it's up to you who you have in your house but are you just never going to see him again? You're basically emotionally blackmailing an old man. How sad.

@Soontobe60 Protecting a vulnerable child isn't blackmail-my child is special needs-he has cerebral palsy and was ten weeks premature-he was on oxygen for 18 months and occasionally up to three years old. We had to avoid other people and anyone who smoked. This was 20 years ago-I had to be nearly this vigilant the past year and a half until he and my hubby and I got fully vaccinated. We pulled him from school. It isn't blackmail-it's trying to keep a child off a ventilator (we were so vigilant and he still was on life support 19 days due to RSV respiratory failure! And he had the RSV vaccine)

It makes you 'mad' that people exercise their intellect in behalf of their own bodily autonomy?

I interested to see if the Government will roll this out to cross border travel/tax benefits/Centrelink benefits/etc (fingers crossed they do).

Appalling. We don't live in a communist state. Although there are enough people seemingly willing to bring it on and give world governments even greater control

It's worth remembering the apt saying: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

@OrangeRug

I mean it's up to you who you have in your house but are you just never going to see him again? You're basically emotionally blackmailing an old man. How sad.

It’s much sadder that the grandparent has made a conscious choice to not protect his vulnerable grandchild.

He has a choice. It’s not blackmail to protect your clinically vulnerable child in a pandemic, ffs.

"FIL, we understand it's your choice whether or not to be vaccinated against covid. But we're not willing to risk hosting an unvaccinated person in our home with our vulnerable child, especially since you have to travel to get here."

YABU but only because you said your daughter is already mixing with people whose vax status you have no idea about.

if your daughter was in isolation then I absolutely get why you'd want him to not visit until vaccinated - but even so, those people can still pass it on and not all vaccines are 100% effective anyway so the risk would remain.

you can say no to him, he can refuse to get the jab and you'll never see each other again.
or someone has to give in. it's tough

@YellowMonday

we have family in Australia and they are unable to come to the UK until 2023 (source: MIL, not checked it in anyway).

is that true?
yes, opening borders this decade would be preferable!!!

@SquarePeggyLeggy

We are in Australia. The vaccination program is ludicrously slow and behind other nations, and totally voluntary. We have our first appointment booked for a few weeks from now (first available!). We are also currently in lockdown. My daughter is a medically vulnerable person. Father in law is clearly hesitant about the vax. Not clear how anti it is, but changes the subject when we talk about it and makes statements such as: “I live in the country and don’t have kids at school, so no risk to me”. He hasn’t outright said no, but it’s clear, and he swings towards alternative treatments etc. He wants to visit us “as soon as lockdown ends”, which is likely to be after our first jab, but not the second. We haven’t seen him since January 2019. It would be good to see him. I don’t want an unvaccinated visitor. I want to say: “we need you to be vaccinated before you visit”. Being older, he can get an immediate appointment. He is 70, he should absolutely get one. AIBU? I don’t want him here or travelling unvaccinated. I’m aware we will have no way of knowing who is and who isn’t and my daughter will be mixing with people all the time. So what are people doing with hesitant visitors when you are adamantly pro vax? How do you discuss it?

I would have said just have the conversation and tell him he's not permitted to visit without his vaccination - your home your choice but as your daughter is medically vulnerable and you're permitting her to mix with people all the time and you don't know their status then yabu.

I'm actually going to say Yabu. And the reason is that you are acutely aware of the fact you won't be keeping your DD at home for ever, she will be mixing with vaccinated and unvaccinated alike.
Is your FiL being daft not getting the vaccine, especially given his age? Maybe, but it's his choice and as an adult he is entitled to make that choice for himself.
I just think it's silly you won't let him visit but also you know your DD will be mixing with people anyway.
If you're that concerned, put hand sanitizer at the door, have social distancing in place/meet in the garden, and wash down door handles etc when he leaves.

It’s much sadder that the grandparent has made a conscious choice to not protect his vulnerable grandchild.

I'm not sure he's refused to take a Covid test though? Which would be a better protection, regardless of vaccine status.

another vote for your house your rules.

You aren't "adamantly pro vax" - you're adamantly compulsory vax.

But only for people you think you can control - like FIL.

And people say I'm weird.

@Dutch1e

It’s much sadder that the grandparent has made a conscious choice to not protect his vulnerable grandchild.

I'm not sure he's refused to take a Covid test though? Which would be a better protection, regardless of vaccine status.

A combination of both would be much more effective, as both testing and vaccines have their limitations. Plus there’s always a risk that he contract covid after his test. It’s better to reduce the risk of developing transmissible covid in the first place.

@lljkk

You aren't "adamantly pro vax" - you're adamantly compulsory vax.

But only for people you think you can control - like FIL.

And people say I'm weird.

Oh, here’s someone who has lost all perspective of the problem the OP has.

She cannot ensure that her vulnerable child never comes into contact with unvaccinated people if allowing her child to try and live a normal life. She can, however, ensure that everyone who enters her home is vaccinated. And she can choose to avoid socialising with people who are refusing to get the vaccine. It’s about risk reduction. The same game we’ve been playing for 15 months now.

1. I agree that in your circumstances (living in Australia etc) the chances of your FIL passing Covid to your daughter are extremely low

1. I support bodily autonomy and would not support enforced vaccination except in much more extreme circumstances.

1. That said, I also think your FIL (and anyone else choosing not be vaccinated who do not have a medical reason for doing so) is making a selfish and/or ill informed decision that increases risk to others and will make it more difficult for us to wipe out or control coronavirus. Their right to choose stops at the choice - there’s no additional right to demand that their choice is consequence or judgement free.

1. Regardless of any of the above, you have a right to set boundaries that reduce risk to your vulnerable daughter. There might be fallout but YANBU. Some other posters have made good suggestions about extra steps your FIL could take to prove he is safe in lieu of being vaccinated (self isolating, taking tests etc)

@ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba I have no insider information, but realistically we're half way through 2021, less than 5% of our population has been fully vaccinated, thanks to our Prime Minister we have significant issues with vaccine stock, and as a country we have moved from an attitude of suppression to elimination.

I personally can't see any chance until 2023, unless your family apply for an exception to leave for more than 3 months and take the risk and cost of flying back and into quarantine.

@user1471539324 you could say it the other way round as well. And you could say the mother is preserving her own life by living it and not just sitting at home lonely and deteriorating. Which is what happens.

I am honestly sick to death of all these self-righteous people saying they are doing it for others and expecting everyone else to do follow suit. Get off your fucking high horse and let people get on with their own lives.

[quote wasthataburp]@user1471539324 you could say it the other way round as well. And you could say the mother is preserving her own life by living it and not just sitting at home lonely and deteriorating. Which is what happens.

I am honestly sick to death of all these self-righteous people saying they are doing it for others and expecting everyone else to do follow suit. Get off your fucking high horse and let people get on with their own lives. [/quote]
Well, get vaccinated, follow basic guidelines and don’t put others at risk. That’s all the vast majority of us are looking for.

Whether you think she is just trying to enjoy her remaining years or not, it is still selfish behaviour and is prolonging restrictions for everyone. And if you can’t see that then clearly you are part of the problem.

Get on with your selfish little life, I don’t care, but don’t go making the problem worse for the rest of us. We have every right to judge you for it.