Father in law won’t get vaccinated but wants to visit

[SquarePeggyLeggy]

We are in Australia. The vaccination program is ludicrously slow and behind other nations, and totally voluntary. We have our first appointment booked for a few weeks from now (first available!). We are also currently in lockdown.
My daughter is a medically vulnerable person.
Father in law is clearly hesitant about the vax. Not clear how anti it is, but changes the subject when we talk about it and makes statements such as: “I live in the country and don’t have kids at school, so no risk to me”. He hasn’t outright said no, but it’s clear, and he swings towards alternative treatments etc.
He wants to visit us “as soon as lockdown ends”, which is likely to be after our first jab, but not the second. We haven’t seen him since January 2019. It would be good to see him.
I don’t want an unvaccinated visitor. I want to say: “we need you to be vaccinated before you visit”. Being older, he can get an immediate appointment. He is 70, he should absolutely get one.
AIBU? I don’t want him here or travelling unvaccinated. I’m aware we will have no way of knowing who is and who isn’t and my daughter will be mixing with people all the time.
So what are people doing with hesitant visitors when you are adamantly pro vax? How do you discuss it?

Totally with you @SquarePeggyLeggy it’s his choice. It’s also your choice how you protect the most precious thing you have- your dd.

I think the stance of pp who said we understand if you don’t want the jab but contact will be outside and no entering the house at all is the way to go.

You’d have thought her grandad would care enough though wouldn’t you?!

It's impossible to be consistent about this, short of never seeing anyone at all. So all you can do is make decisions on the basis of what you feel comfortable with - and if his decision makes you uncomfortable, then you have to tell him.

It's not blackmail, any more than any definition of boundaries is blackmail. He makes his decision, you make yours, and if those are incompatible, both sides accept the consequences of that.

I think your boundary is reasonable.

As a (double vaccinated) grandparent myself, then assuming there are no medical reasons why he shouldn’t have it, I think your FiL is being stubbornly stupid and selfish.,
I wouldn’t want him visiting, either.

And yes, I do understand that vaccination is no 100% guarantee of either not getting Covid nor of passing it on, but it reduces the risk for everybody.

People who demand that others have the jab to protect third parties clearly haven’t got much of an understanding about statistics surrounding vaccine efficacy.

I’m aware we will have no way of knowing who is and who isn’t and my daughter will be mixing with people all the time.

Then your post is pointless hmm

No it’s not. Just because we are exposed to unknown risks, doesn’t mean we can’t protect against known ones. Especially when those known risks are more likely to be in close personal contact with our children than other people we meet day to day.

The alternative is you all isolate for 10 days (you and him) and all test before he comes

@timeisnotaline

Umm you’re in australia. Outside of outbreaks and lockdowns almost no one is at risk. In the height of outbreaks and lockdowns, we don’t even feature on the cases per 100,000 scale used in global comparisons. I’m in melb, I know nobody who has had COVID, except my friends overseas, who have either had it or know no one who has had it. It’s your choice what rules you make re your family but your fil would be perfectly reasonable to decide you’ve always hated him and finally found an excuse to cut him off, and many many would agree with him. I expect everyone who’s been at a contact site or has symptoms to test and isolate, but the community risk is really negligible.

So we shouldn’t bother getting vaccinated here? Just because we’ve done ok up to this point, doesn’t mean we’re out of the woods. 30 new cases today in Sydney proves that. We are all very much still at risk, this pandemic is still very much still here and at 70 years old, OPs FIL is right in the highest demographic of people who die of COVID. I’m an ICU nurse, I’ve seen plenty of people in Australia with COVID, many of whom died.

OP, I wonder if your FIL is waiting for the government to pull back on the AZ vaccine and is holding out for Pfizer or moderna? I suppose all you can say is that you’ll need him vaccinated before he visits and just keep putting the ball back in his court.

I am double vaccinated but would defend someone's right to choose to be vaccinated or not. The thing is my parents live in Australia and where they live there is zero community transmission. So it depends on where you live. If you live somewhere with zero transmission and he lives somewhere with zero transmission...I don't so much see the problem.

@Youdiditanyway

I don’t think people understand how the vaccine works. It protects you, not other unvaccinated people around you. The whole premise is that you can still catch covid even following vaccination but you’re far less likely to get sick and require hospitalisation. Vaccinated people can still spread covid to others too so even if your FIL was vaccinated, he could still carry and transmit covid.

It sounds like his lifestyle is quite ‘low risk’ if he lives in the sticks and barely goes out. I’d let him visit personally.

Vaccination does protect the user and the covid vaccine does reduce the likelihood of hospitalisation and death. But that is certainly not the only reason to get vacvinated.

I think that you are the one who doesn't fully understand vaccination.

The covid vaccine has been shown to reduce transmission. If a vaccinated person catches covid, they are less likely to transmit the virus than an unvaccinated person.

Reduced transmission reduces the likelihood of the emergence of new variants.

There will always be some people who are unable to be vaccinated against a disease for clinical reasons. Governments with vaccine programmes aim to vaccinate as many people as possible, not just to protect those who are vaccinated but also to achieve herd immunity in order to protect those who are unable to be vaccinated. The percentage of a population which needs to be vaccinated in order to achieve herd immunity varies from disease to disease.

Jeez. I had Covid. I had Covid quite bad. Not hospital bad, but it took a year to recover and I have a few after effects still. I don't regret catching it. It could have just as well as been flu or pneumonia.

I think you're being unreasonable. But then, I think the whole reaction to this illness and the world wide response has been completely outrageous. We're actually letting it change family dynamics now?

Get the vaccine or don't see your grandchild? Wow.

And no just because he's 70 doesn't mean his opinions on his bodily autonomy aren't worthy of respect. He doesn't 'have' neither 'should' he get one.

What the bloody hell has happened to everybody? I would understand if it was something like Ebola or Small pox but this virus doesn't harm the vast majority of people badly, especially the young. My children caught it and threw it off with ease. Barely a temperature.

I blame the mass reporting of dodgy stats without associated context during the last year and the constant mind-numbing disaster-politics coverage. The stifling of reporting and shut down of dissenting views even from eminent scientists that were not government appointed is to blame for where we are now. It's sad.

The media led disapprobation of people choosing not to vax themselves reminds me of how propaganda language during conscription efforts of the first and second world war was used to make conscientious objectors or anyone dissenting to sign up seem like selfish, craven individuals who weren't interested in the nationalistic good and didn't care about their families or countrymen. People were frozen out by their families and communities for refusing to join up.

You’d have thought her grandad would care enough though wouldn’t you?!

My point underscored perfectly.

You cannot force people to get vaccinated. It’s their choice. And refusing to see them if they don’t get vaccinated is tantamount to blackmail
Refusing to see people whose behaviour puts your DC at risk really isn't blackmail.

I would meet unvaccinated friends for a walk outside or a drink in a pub garden. Only meet inside with vaccinated friends & family.

It's not foolproof but a reasonable compromise.

it wont be or stay zero transmission when borders are eventually opened. The whole purpose of Aust vaccine roll out is to ready the population for open borders - not complete virus mitigation.

i am in a similar situation - In Aus and some family members eligible but refused thus far to get AZ vax. It is frustrating but their own choice. I have been double vaxed (under 40, no health/work reasons - some states are actually doing really well with their roll out!) so I have made my choice.
All you can do is explain why you want them to consider vax (daughters health and what do they plan to do when borders are opened?) unfortunelty that's all you can do

I think that it’s highly likely that the Australian government will require incoming visitors to be double vaccinated when they do initially reopen the borders. I doubt Qantas have said that they will only fly vaxxed pax for a laugh - someone in power has told them that.

My mother (in her 70s) has refused the vaccine. We live in London, she does not. She has not abided by any of the Covid restrictions and has travelled between her permanent and holiday homes in different parts of the UK and visited other members of the family freely throughout the lockdowns.

I'm furious about it, but I accept that's her choice. Similarly though, we are protecting a clinically vulnerable family member, so it is my choice not to accept a visit from my mother or visit her. Her anti-vax stance doesn't trump my concern for protecting a vulnerable person the way I think best.

I don’t think it’s blackmail to refuse a visit either. It’s simply protecting a vulnerable person.

People are free to refuse the vaccine, of course, but they will have to accept the long term restrictions this could place upon them. Which could include not seeing family and friends.

You must do whats right for you

Your dad lives in the countryside and there is almost zero Covid in Australia. Your dd is mixing with people, who are unlikely to be vaccinated. Putting all those facts together, YABU.

Were you in the U.K. with your dd shielding and your df mixing plus refusing to vaccinate, it would be a different story.

@Thecazelets

My mother (in her 70s) has refused the vaccine. We live in London, she does not. She has not abided by any of the Covid restrictions and has travelled between her permanent and holiday homes in different parts of the UK and visited other members of the family freely throughout the lockdowns.

I'm furious about it, but I accept that's her choice. Similarly though, we are protecting a clinically vulnerable family member, so it is my choice not to accept a visit from my mother or visit her. Her anti-vax stance doesn't trump my concern for protecting a vulnerable person the way I think best.

People like your mum make me so angry when my sons in their early 20s stayed in for months last year and even now have limited social life...to protect the elderly. Im sorry op i know its not your fault but im fizzing at your mum.

He's not going to kill you if he doesn't get vaccinated. You sound like too much hard work

Are you going to ask to see the vaccination card for every single person you associate with?!
Jesus is this what we have become?!
You say you haven’t seen him since Jan 2019. Way before COVID.

@DysonSphere

Jeez. I had Covid. I had Covid quite bad. Not hospital bad, but it took a year to recover and I have a few after effects still. I don't regret catching it. It could have just as well as been flu or pneumonia.

I think you're being unreasonable. But then, I think the whole reaction to this illness and the world wide response has been completely outrageous. We're actually letting it change family dynamics now?

Get the vaccine or don't see your grandchild? Wow.

And no just because he's 70 doesn't mean his opinions on his bodily autonomy aren't worthy of respect. He doesn't 'have' neither 'should' he get one.

What the bloody hell has happened to everybody? I would understand if it was something like Ebola or Small pox but this virus doesn't harm the vast majority of people badly, especially the young. My children caught it and threw it off with ease. Barely a temperature.

I blame the mass reporting of dodgy stats without associated context during the last year and the constant mind-numbing disaster-politics coverage. The stifling of reporting and shut down of dissenting views even from eminent scientists that were not government appointed is to blame for where we are now. It's sad.

The media led disapprobation of people choosing not to vax themselves reminds me of how propaganda language during conscription efforts of the first and second world war was used to make conscientious objectors or anyone dissenting to sign up seem like selfish, craven individuals who weren't interested in the nationalistic good and didn't care about their families or countrymen. People were frozen out by their families and communities for refusing to join up.

You’d have thought her grandad would care enough though wouldn’t you?!

My point underscored perfectly.

Couldn't have put it better. Also had Covid myself. People need a reality check and he's better off without you if this how you choose to treat family.

Australia is very low risk. There are still good reasons to be vaccinated, but no one I know would police some one else's vaccine status.
Your FIL would be offered AZ. Would you feel ok if he got at your insistence then became ill from the vaccine? Over half the people I know (4/7) were quite ill after AZ. Of the 4, three were too scared to take a second dose. I wouldn't try and insist an older relative have it, when I can access the Pfizer.

Are Australia going to let the unvaccinated in?
They are very hot on border control type shows regarding food etc and items that might harbour viruses. I can't see them letting Joe Bloggs in , unvaccinated, somehow.
OP might not have to do anything.

@Thecazelets

My mother (in her 70s) has refused the vaccine. We live in London, she does not. She has not abided by any of the Covid restrictions and has travelled between her permanent and holiday homes in different parts of the UK and visited other members of the family freely throughout the lockdowns.

I'm furious about it, but I accept that's her choice. Similarly though, we are protecting a clinically vulnerable family member, so it is my choice not to accept a visit from my mother or visit her. Her anti-vax stance doesn't trump my concern for protecting a vulnerable person the way I think best.

Good for your mil living what's left of her life to the fullest instead of staying home and deteriorating.

Your sound insane by the way