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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Declined Annual Leave, AIBU?

163 replies

blaisealex · 26/06/2021 18:57

The whole family was hit by a sickness bug this week meaning DH ended up being off work for four days, Tuesday to Friday.

He requested annual leave rather than losing money. This request was declined. Surely, this is unfair? The company don't pay sick pay. It's going to leave our family short by three hundred pounds next month which will mean we struggle to buy food next month and fuel our cars to get to and from work.

He has always used annual leave to cover sickness before and that has never been a problem. Only recently a colleague used AL when he was off with an injured knee.

So, AIBU to think this isn't fair and is there anything we can do?

OP posts:
drpet49 · 26/06/2021 18:58

I really don’t understand why his company wouldn’t let him take it as annual leaver. Bizarre

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 26/06/2021 18:59

Annual leave cannot be used in place of sickness leave. Indeed, if you book and go off on annual leave but then are Ill, the leave should be changed to reflect, and the annual leave added back into your entitlement.

If he is too sick to work, and needs to take leave because of it, then that leave needs to be sick leave.

ChrissyPlummer · 26/06/2021 19:00

I have never heard of this happening anywhere. Where I work, leave has to be requested before you want it; they will make exceptions for emergencies though.

Backhills · 26/06/2021 19:02

Yes, the whole sick leave unpaid thing is outrageous and should be reformed but no chance of that under a Tory government, but if he was sick whilst on holiday he's entitled tonthe holiday back . A decent employer will make sure staff have their holidays, not use them when sick. They should also pay them, but....

Original poster
blaisealex · 26/06/2021 19:02

Not to mention the fact that due to Covid-19 DH has also been forced to use 10 days of his annual leave already this year. And he has also been forced to use two days AL to cover the sites closure on Christmas Eve and New Years Eve as they've decided to close these days when usually they would be open. None of this was a massive issue, although, inconvenient, but now it's irritated me that they've been so forceful about when he has to use his leave but won't allow him the same courtesy in return, eg, to be able to use his leave when he desperately needs too.

OP posts:
Original poster
blaisealex · 26/06/2021 19:05

But surely, if he wants to use his leave when sick that should be allowed? It has never been a problem before. Both of us have been allowed to us AL to cover sickness if we needed or wanted too. I'm not sure what we're going to do next month now. Three Hundred quid short... how are we supposed to be our family? Next time it happens he'll have to go into work then. Can't risk losing that amount of money again. So when he has a high temperature, the shits and is throwing up everywhere, he can do it in the work toilets instead of my bathroom next time!

OP posts:
JellyTumble · 26/06/2021 19:07

YABU. Employers can dictate when you can and can’t take your annual leave so no, there’s nothing you can do.

BackforGood · 26/06/2021 19:08

I can't say that not being allowed to use AL for sickness is unreasonable, as no-one should be expected to use their AL for sickness. That is the part about all this that is wrong.

Can he join a union?
Or contact ACAS ?
(Sorry, I'm assuming you are in the UK which you might not be)

Nsky · 26/06/2021 19:08

Always has sick pay, not annual leave, even then the first week not covered, it’s odd to expect hol to cover it

VeniVidiWeeWee · 26/06/2021 19:14

How to claim
To claim Statutory Sick Pay (SSP), tell your employer by the deadline. Check with your employer how you should tell them.

If you cannot work for 7 or more days (including non-working days) you need:

an ‘isolation note’ if you’re unable to work because of coronavirus (COVID-19)
your notification from the NHS or public health authorities if you’ve been told to self-isolate because you’ve come into contact with someone with COVID-19
a ‘fit note’ (or sick note) if you’re off sick for another reason
a letter confirming the date of your procedure if you’ve been advised to self-isolate before going into hospital for surgery
If you’re unhappy with a decision
Talk to your employer if you think:

their decision not to pay you SSP is wrong
you’re not getting the right amount of SSP
You can ask them for a reason.

If this does not sort the problem, contact the HMRC Statutory Payment Disputes Team.

Phone: 0300 322 9422

trilbydoll · 26/06/2021 19:16

If you let people take AL when they are sick you don't have accurate sickness records. And if someone uses all their AL when they're ill they're never having a proper holiday which isn't good for you. So despite them not paying him, the policy is meant to be for his wellbeing. Somehow.

Cocomarine · 26/06/2021 19:16

I think YABU, though I sympathise with not having savings to cover it 😢
I work for a pretty good employer generally, and this would be a big no for them.
If you’re sick, you’re sick.
They don’t want people using AL when genuinely sick, as then they don’t get the proper physical and mental rest that they want them to have from AL.
Plus, there’s a risk that people take the AL option which:
(a) hides sickness stats - we actually do look pretty seriously to see if particular departments or line managers have an unusual number of sickness absences that suggest an unhealthy (usually mentally) work environment
(b) people still need AL for real holiday or other time off, and when they run short they call in sick instead - which is bad culturally and often no notice when it could have been planned

It’s rubbish for you, but it’s not wrong of the company.

Iquitit · 26/06/2021 19:18

I think yabu, but only because no one should have to use AL in place of sick leave so they don't suffer financially.
Everyone should get full pay when off sick, or at least enough so that they aren't in debt by being ill, people literally can't afford to be ill and risk their health, and that of others if it's transmissible, by having to go to work when ill because they don't get paid and they can't live on SSP. It doesn't even come anywhere near replacing my piss poor wage, so I get where you're coming from, I've had to use AL in the past to recover from surgery.
It's absolutely ridiculous.

Cocomarine · 26/06/2021 19:19

@blaisealex

But surely, if he wants to use his leave when sick that should be allowed? It has never been a problem before. Both of us have been allowed to us AL to cover sickness if we needed or wanted too. I'm not sure what we're going to do next month now. Three Hundred quid short... how are we supposed to be our family? Next time it happens he'll have to go into work then. Can't risk losing that amount of money again. So when he has a high temperature, the shits and is throwing up everywhere, he can do it in the work toilets instead of my bathroom next time!
No need to be over dramatic. Actually what you need to do between now and he really time is build up an emergency fund to cover it. And yes, that’s really bloody hard. But it’s the action you have to take - not going into work and throwing up.
JellyTumble · 26/06/2021 19:21

Next time it happens he'll have to go into work then. Can't risk losing that amount of money again. So when he has a high temperature, the shits and is throwing up everywhere, he can do it in the work toilets instead of my bathroom next time!

Then they’d be well within their rights to send him home, OP, and no, they wouldn’t need to pay him.

KarmaStar · 26/06/2021 19:21

Will they offer some overtime to help out?
This is awful,I hope something turns up for you very soon.🌈

flippertygibbit · 26/06/2021 19:22

Nope, if you're sick, you're sick, not on holiday. It skews sickness records to use AL. Also, your employer can determine when you take every single day's leave if they so wish to.

Original poster
blaisealex · 26/06/2021 19:23

Okay, yes it was dramatic. But I'm annoyed. We can't afford to build up an emergency fund. We are already living month to month with no savings. And for the first time ever, over the last few months we've even ended up in overdraft so currently have a £400 overdraft to pay off. Having an emergency fund is a luxury most people can't afford.

OP posts:
JellyTumble · 26/06/2021 19:25

We can't afford to build up an emergency fund.

That’s not your employers problem 🤷‍♀️

Having an emergency fund is a luxury most people can't afford.

That’s simply not true. More people than not have some savings for an emergency.

Quietrebel · 26/06/2021 19:26

No need to be over dramatic. Actually what you need to do between now and he really time is build up an emergency fund to cover it.

Ridiculous! OP has said they'll be in debt and many families can't build savings, try as they might.

CharlotteRose90 · 26/06/2021 19:26

It’s awful but most companies do it.
My company won’t let you use annual leave when you’re sick. Completely understandable. Can you or him do overtime to boost the money up?

Quietrebel · 26/06/2021 19:28

That’s simply not true. More people than not have some savings for an emergency.

Nice when you're on the right side of the fence!
Can't believe how sanctimonious some posters are on here. Hope they never fall on hard times.

Thehenbunringsock · 26/06/2021 19:29

@JellyTumble

We can't afford to build up an emergency fund.

That’s not your employers problem 🤷‍♀️

Having an emergency fund is a luxury most people can't afford.

That’s simply not true. More people than not have some savings for an emergency.

And you know this how?
VeniVidiWeeWee · 26/06/2021 19:29

Why can't he use SSP.

Is he not an employee?

Original poster
blaisealex · 26/06/2021 19:30

@JellyTumble

We can't afford to build up an emergency fund.

That’s not your employers problem 🤷‍♀️

Having an emergency fund is a luxury most people can't afford.

That’s simply not true. More people than not have some savings for an emergency.

I literally have no words for you.
OP posts: