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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Declined Annual Leave, AIBU?

163 replies

blaisealex · 26/06/2021 18:57

The whole family was hit by a sickness bug this week meaning DH ended up being off work for four days, Tuesday to Friday.

He requested annual leave rather than losing money. This request was declined. Surely, this is unfair? The company don't pay sick pay. It's going to leave our family short by three hundred pounds next month which will mean we struggle to buy food next month and fuel our cars to get to and from work.

He has always used annual leave to cover sickness before and that has never been a problem. Only recently a colleague used AL when he was off with an injured knee.

So, AIBU to think this isn't fair and is there anything we can do?

OP posts:
FlaminEckVera · 26/06/2021 21:17

@blaisealex Have you claimed for tax credits/ UC, council tax benefit, or housing benefit (if you rent?) You may be entitled to some help.

TheSmallAssassin · 26/06/2021 21:18

What country are you in? Its illegal to sack someone for being in a union in the UK.

Original poster
blaisealex · 26/06/2021 21:18

[quote FlaminEckVera]@blaisealex Have you claimed for tax credits/ UC, council tax benefit, or housing benefit (if you rent?) You may be entitled to some help.[/quote]
We aren't. I've done the calculators online, spoken to citizens advice, etc. We aren't entitled.

OP posts:
ancientgran · 26/06/2021 21:19

@Nocutenamesleft

I’m almost certain SSP can be used for more than 3 days off

Not from the 3rd day off.

So because he was off for 4 days. He’d get it. He wouldn’t of done had it been for 3. He’ll get the full 4 days too

Though I could of got that wrong.

Yes you got it wrong. If you are sick for 4 days you get 1 days SSP as the first 3 days are waiting days. SSP is currently £96.35 per week.
JammyGem · 26/06/2021 21:21

Sorry, I cant offer any practical advice OP but just wanted to say ignore the sanctimonious arseholes who don't realise that most of us in the real world can't afford to save anything for emergencies. We'd be in the same boat, at the end of the month we've done well if we have a tenner left over in our account.

ancientgran · 26/06/2021 21:22

@superduster

All companies pay sick pay - SSP. Many just don't pay enhanced sick pay on top of that. Its not a lot of money but its not true to say they don't pay sick pay. The government hasn't paid small businesses for SSP since 2014.
But not everyone qualifies.
Original poster
blaisealex · 26/06/2021 21:25

@TheSmallAssassin

What country are you in? Its illegal to sack someone for being in a union in the UK.
I know that. Thankfully, we no longer work for that company any more. The boss was a law unto himself. I got a disciplinary once for using the toilet when I still had 5 minutes left of my lunch break. I saw the Boss hold an employee up against the wall and strangle him. Reguarly swearing at staff. Firing for no reason other than he's bored or someone looked at him the wrong way. Sacked if you join a union. Believe it or not bosses and companies like this exist but employees are in too much of a state of utter fear and oppression to report or do anything about it. High turnover of staff. People get out when they realise how bad it is. Others with no choice but to stay because they can't find anything else. Eventually some long timers manage to get away. My DH didn't manage to escape until after he'd worked there for 16 years!
OP posts:
FlaminEckVera · 26/06/2021 21:25

@blaisealex I have done online calculators and spoke to Citizens advice. We are not entitled to UC and tax credits.

I am sorry about that. I am surprised to hear this, as your income is seemingly low, and you are struggling financially. I hope things come good for you soon!

AlexaShutUp · 26/06/2021 21:35

@Melonportal

Allowing people to take annual leave instead of sick leave can create a resourcing headache as anyone who has had a leave request denied because the company need them in, can say they're sick and take annual leave anyway. Most companies require leave to be booked in advance so that they can ensure they have enough staff working each day.

I know this doesn't help you OP, but it's one of the reasons my employer wouldn't let us use annual leave to cover sickness.

This.
BackforGood · 26/06/2021 21:39

Some really - at best naive, at worst sneering comments from JellyTumble and alexdgr8

I’m speaking from studies that have been done. The majority of people do not live hand to mouth and have at least some small savings.

Could you link to these studies @JellyTumble ?

Though, quite frankly, even if it were only 1% of families that are 'just about managing' families and have no leeway, what would it matter how many others were in the same position, if the poster asking for support happens to be in that 1% - or even if they were the only family in the whole country for that matter?

rainbowpencils · 26/06/2021 21:53

I don't get sick pay and it really does mean you work every day you can physically drag yourself in.
I feel for you OP I would probably get away with using AL for sickness but that's because I wouldn't tell them I'm sick and have never been denied AL.

I feel sorry for you. I am lucky and have 6 months savings in the bank for emergencies but it's unfair for people to judge you and your circumstances. I can't even imagine how many people have been in your shoes since the pandemic began.
I hope this system changes. The utter hypocrisy around what the public sector gets vs the actual law as well. It's basically admitting the law is too low a standard in reality imo.

thenightsky · 26/06/2021 21:57

I saw the Boss hold an employee up against the wall and strangle him. Reguarly swearing at staff. Firing for no reason other than he's bored or someone looked at him the wrong way. Sacked if you join a union

Christ! Name and shame OP?

Original poster
blaisealex · 26/06/2021 22:01

@thenightsky

I saw the Boss hold an employee up against the wall and strangle him. Reguarly swearing at staff. Firing for no reason other than he's bored or someone looked at him the wrong way. Sacked if you join a union

Christ! Name and shame OP?

I haven't worked there for four years and I'm still scared of the bloke so, no, I can't name and shame. An old colleague of mine developed PTSD from working there and three years later she still has nightmares and wakes up in a coldsweat because of him. She hasn't been able to work since.
OP posts:
Quietrebel · 26/06/2021 22:08

There are some right bastards out there, sorry OP

BungleandGeorge · 26/06/2021 22:14

Is there any chance of them letting him make up some hours?
This is one of the reasons that working families can be worse off relying on earned income rather than benefits. There should be a lot more protection for working people, what an awful situation for you

wisteriaandwhine · 26/06/2021 22:24

Ok, so being practical if you're not entitled to UC, make sure you know how to access food banks in your area so that if it does come to it next month you can get yourselves fed.

There is no shame in asking for and accepting help on occasion when you need it.

CrabAppleJelly · 26/06/2021 22:26

For the first time I’m working for a company who doesn’t pay sick pay, and I was off recently when I broke my foot.
No pay for a whole day, out of my weekly pay was a significant chunk.
No allowance of course made for my uncomfortable work now, they couldn’t give a toss.
You can’t claim sick pay for one day, so I can’t get statutory sick pay.

When you get sick pay as a norm in a jon, you just have no idea, how much ill health can effect you, when there is no security at all n your job.

Even with my broken ankle I was having to phone round and email people to say I wouldn’t be in for a whole day, before I got to a hospital, having had no sleep whatsoever over night

FlaminEckVera · 26/06/2021 22:30

@NannyAndJohn

YABU (or more rather, HIBU).

Don't like the policies, find another company to work for.

There are literally NO words to describe this mind-numbingly idiotic statement. ^
Elbie79 · 26/06/2021 22:57

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

Annual leave cannot be used in place of sickness leave. Indeed, if you book and go off on annual leave but then are Ill, the leave should be changed to reflect, and the annual leave added back into your entitlement.

If he is too sick to work, and needs to take leave because of it, then that leave needs to be sick leave.

Says who?

Up to individual employers surely.

JellyTumble · 26/06/2021 23:21

[quote anniegun]@JellyTumble 41% of Brits don’t have enough savings to live for a month without income

www.finder.com/uk/saving-statistics[/quote]
Yep. That’s not most people.

aliloandabanana · 26/06/2021 23:22

@NannyAndJohn

YABU (or more rather, HIBU).

Don't like the policies, find another company to work for.

Do you realise that there are entire sectors/industries where it is the norm not to pay sick pay? If you work in a specialised field that is only in one of those sectors, what should you do? Retrain immediately?

JellyTumble · 26/06/2021 23:23

Stop talking utter rot. Just admit you are wrong, and apologise.

@FlaminEckVera There’s nothing to apologise for; I’m not wrong. A link someone else posted proves that too.

transformandriseup · 26/06/2021 23:23

This place had become really nasty. £300 is a huge amount to lose and I feel a lot of people these days have lost touch with how it is for a large portion of people. I know many people who haven't taken sick leave in several years (some over a decade) because they couldn't afford to be without pay. I have fortunately worked for a few employers in the past who allowed staff to take annual leave to cover sickness. I am very lucky to have one now who pays full sick pay.

JellyTumble · 26/06/2021 23:24

Could you link to these studies @JellyTumble ?

@BackforGood Another poster already did it a couple of pages ago, and google is your friend also.

saraclara · 26/06/2021 23:34

It doesn't matter if most people have emergency savings. Those people are not likely to be the the in poorly paying jobs that don't pay sick pay are they?

In order to have emergency savings you have to have had some money at the end of the month to effing SAVE!

Seriously, it's those struggling to be in the black at the end of the month who live most precariously, and it's those of us who can save, who are the least likely to find ourselves in a situation where we need that emergency money.

I can't imagine how frustrating it is for OP to have people being so horribly patronising, and assuming that she doesn't know how to save, how to budget, or what she's entitled to. Of course she does. She's more practised at it than any of you.