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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Declined Annual Leave, AIBU?

163 replies

blaisealex · 26/06/2021 18:57

The whole family was hit by a sickness bug this week meaning DH ended up being off work for four days, Tuesday to Friday.

He requested annual leave rather than losing money. This request was declined. Surely, this is unfair? The company don't pay sick pay. It's going to leave our family short by three hundred pounds next month which will mean we struggle to buy food next month and fuel our cars to get to and from work.

He has always used annual leave to cover sickness before and that has never been a problem. Only recently a colleague used AL when he was off with an injured knee.

So, AIBU to think this isn't fair and is there anything we can do?

OP posts:
Thehenbunringsock · 26/06/2021 19:52

Some of them might as well have said "op, have you tried having more money?"

Livelovebehappy · 26/06/2021 19:54

Companies have to be careful that they are allowing employees a break from work to recharge their batteries, and if he has used his annual leave for sickness before, and hasn’t been using his holiday for rest, rather than confined to bed ill, it’s not really classed as a break. We have a rule at our work that you have to have at least one holiday of two weeks in a row from work, because they feel a break from work for this length of time is necessary for your mind and body.

DynamoKev · 26/06/2021 19:54

@moonbedazzled

You're entitled to SSP if you are ill 4 full days in a row not after 4 full days.

From ACAS website...

By law, employers must pay Statutory Sick Pay (SSP) to employees and workers when they meet eligibility conditions, including when: they've been off sick or self-isolating for at least 4 days in a row, including non-working days.

You don't get paid for the first 3 days - except at the moment there is a temporary rule allowing people with Covid related sickness to be paid from day 1. So he wouldn't get anything for the first 3 days. Why do people who don't know the actual rules keep posting ignorant nonsense about SSP?

SSP is a rotten over complex system, but it's what we have and unlikely to change if people keep voting for governments like the current one.

MintMatchmaker · 26/06/2021 19:56

Any chance he could do some overtime to help fund the shortfall?

It's terrible that sick leave is unpaid, but when I worked for a large organisation where it was, many many people (openly) took advantage of it. It's very wrong that people are left in a position such as yours. I don't think the company are wrong for refusing to allow it as AL though.

moonbedazzled · 26/06/2021 20:02

@DynamoKev Yes, I know. I already corrected this and apologised.

Why do people who don't read the full thread keep posting complaints about things already corrected?

MerthyrMum · 26/06/2021 20:06

Though I sympathise, if you have to get approval for annual leave then there is always a risk that won’t be granted. I know where I work it’s unusual to have annual leave requests rejected but it does happen on some occasions because otherwise there isn’t enough staff in to cover the work.

Rillington · 26/06/2021 20:07

@JellyTumble you obviously know some well off people. Back here in the real world most people live month to month.

JellyTumble · 26/06/2021 20:08

[quote Rillington]@JellyTumble you obviously know some well off people. Back here in the real world most people live month to month.[/quote]
I know people from all backgrounds, but I’m not talking anecdotally.

I’m speaking from studies that have been done. The majority of people do not live hand to mouth and have at least some small savings.

mellicauli · 26/06/2021 20:15

Could he take 3 days of work and use it to get 3 days' casual/temp work?

AzureTwist · 26/06/2021 20:16

But one day of SSP is better than nothing. That £20 will pay for some food.

JuliaLou · 26/06/2021 20:16

when will he get paid this?
Is there any chance, assuming he gets paid end of July for this sickness to use this time to cut back a little more/I know this is easier said than done and spread the loss over two months rather than one?

Movealongmovealong · 26/06/2021 20:16

Yes agree about universal credit. If you are not already claiming it and 3 days lost work is going to leave you without food to feed your family - then can I urge you to claim Universal Credit. ? It's not perfect and not sufficient for the unemployed to live on - but is really quite generous if you are working.
I think people assume that because they work full time they will not be eligible- but anyone who earns under £45k and has kids should get themselves on to the turn2us calculator...

benefits-calculator-2.turn2us.org.uk/

.. especially if you pay rent and/or child care. The beauty of it is that it is connected with your works payroll so in situations like this, it will adjust automatically.

Just to give you an idea of how much you can earn and still get something . 2 years ago I had one child in last year of A levels. Worked full time on £37400 pa and paid rent of £995. I was entitled to £230 per month... and had been for years.
OP check it out.

LizzieW1969 · 26/06/2021 20:17

This is the reason why a lot of people have been unable to self-isolate for 10 days after a positive Covid test, they literally couldn’t afford to.

BusyLizzie61 · 26/06/2021 20:18

If he was sick 4 days, he's entitled to claim ssp. Not going to cover everything, but some of the wages.
Presumably if on such a low income, you'll receive more universal credit as well.
The employer isn't being unreasonable per se. Yes, it would have helped you out, but they're not obligated to do so and may well have business reasons not to do so.
Likewise the holiday leave for the Christmas shutdown is their prerogative and they indeed could prescribe every holiday timing if they so wished.

llm24 · 26/06/2021 20:21

My work don’t pay sick pay and if off ill can’t use holidays either 😞

BritWifeInUSA · 26/06/2021 20:22

The last company I worked for in the UK before moving to the US had the same policy. It’s not great but presumably he knew this when he took the job?

Why would it ge good that you can’t afford next month? Can’t you cut somethings else instead? Or call your utility companies and ask for reduced it deferred payments instead? Wouldn’t it be better to have the Internet or TV cut off for a month than food?

anniegun · 26/06/2021 20:23

@JellyTumble 41% of Brits don’t have enough savings to live for a month without income

www.finder.com/uk/saving-statistics

ancientgran · 26/06/2021 20:24

@VeniVidiWeeWee

How to claim To claim Statutory Sick Pay (SSP), tell your employer by the deadline. Check with your employer how you should tell them.

If you cannot work for 7 or more days (including non-working days) you need:

an ‘isolation note’ if you’re unable to work because of coronavirus (COVID-19)
your notification from the NHS or public health authorities if you’ve been told to self-isolate because you’ve come into contact with someone with COVID-19
a ‘fit note’ (or sick note) if you’re off sick for another reason
a letter confirming the date of your procedure if you’ve been advised to self-isolate before going into hospital for surgery
If you’re unhappy with a decision
Talk to your employer if you think:

their decision not to pay you SSP is wrong
you’re not getting the right amount of SSP
You can ask them for a reason.

If this does not sort the problem, contact the HMRC Statutory Payment Disputes Team.

Phone: 0300 322 9422

If he was off Tuesday to Friday he won't get any SSP for Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday as they are waiting days unless it is linked to another period of sickness within 8 weeks.

If he normally works Monday to Friday his SSP will be the princely sum of £19.27.

GammyLeg · 26/06/2021 20:24

This is shocking, your company sounds awful. I have no idea of the sick pay laws in the UK but it seems so wrong to be forcing people into work when they’re not well - during a pandemic no less.

My company introduced unlimited sick leave a year ago. Contrary to expected… there has not been a rise in people taking SL.

ancientgran · 26/06/2021 20:30

OP was he actually fit for work on the Saturday and Sunday? If not he needs to include those days on his Self Cert and at least get 3 days SSP.

BritWifeInUSA · 26/06/2021 20:30

@DynamoKev

“SSP is a rotten over complex system, but it's what we have and unlikely to change if people keep voting for governments like the current one.”

And the last Labour government did so much to improve it when they had the chance?

FlaminEckVera · 26/06/2021 20:31

@JellyTumble

I’m speaking from studies that have been done. The majority of people do not live hand to mouth and have at least some small savings.

Stop talking utter rot. Just admit you are wrong, and apologise.

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 26/06/2021 20:32

As an aside, is it normal for companies to not provide sick pay? I've always been NHS so sick pay is a given.

FlaminEckVera · 26/06/2021 20:32

Agree with @BritWifeInUSA people can blame the Tories all they like, but Labour did fuck-all about the shitty SSP people get. Hmm

ElderMillennial · 26/06/2021 20:33

My thoughts are:

1 If he is off sick then he should be using sick days rather than AL.
2 I understood that an employer can say yes or not to a request for AL so they don't have to let him book it.

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