Declined Annual Leave, AIBU?

[blaisealex]

The whole family was hit by a sickness bug this week meaning DH ended up being off work for four days, Tuesday to Friday.

He requested annual leave rather than losing money. This request was declined. Surely, this is unfair? The company don't pay sick pay. It's going to leave our family short by three hundred pounds next month which will mean we struggle to buy food next month and fuel our cars to get to and from work.

He has always used annual leave to cover sickness before and that has never been a problem. Only recently a colleague used AL when he was off with an injured knee.

So, AIBU to think this isn't fair and is there anything we can do?

I know some have already mentioned food banks but you don't need to be receiving benefits to use them.

Also there are community larders.

@saraclara

It doesn't matter if most people have emergency savings. Those people are not likely to be the the in poorly paying jobs that don't pay sick pay are they? In order to have emergency savings you have to have had some money at the end of the month to effing SAVE!

Seriously, it's those struggling to be in the black at the end of the month who live most precariously, and it's those of us who can save, who are the least likely to find ourselves in a situation where we need that emergency money.

I can't imagine how frustrating it is for OP to have people being so horribly patronising, and assuming that she doesn't know how to save, how to budget, or what she's entitled to. Of course she does. She's more practised at it than any of you.

This in spades. ^ There are some truly heartless, clueless, condescending people on here. Not a fucking clue about what life is like for many people.

I'm not even talking to them now. Can't be arsed. They're so clueless, narrow minded, and badly educated, that it's actually painful trying to communicate with them.

My employer offers 5 days fully paid for the first two years increasing by 5 days each year to a max of 25. In reality if you only had 5 days’ allowance but needed longer owing to, say, an operation, we’d just pay at full rate.

At the start of covid we announced every covid-related absence would be paid in full (including isolating), recorded separately from other absence and not be deducted from the standard allowances.

Our premises guy was off with covid then recovery for 8 weeks and then had a phased return. Never even a question of whether he’d be paid.

I can call in sick and be told ‘no problem, get better soon’ and be left alone.

We have extremely low sickness. Everyone treated like an adult, no one scared about money etc. Employers are so fucking short sighted.

YANBU OP - it’s a shower.of shit.

@saraclara Well said!! I don't get how some people can be so unkind.

[quote BritWifeInUSA]@DynamoKev

“SSP is a rotten over complex system, but it's what we have and unlikely to change if people keep voting for governments like the current one.”

And the last Labour government did so much to improve it when they had the chance?[/quote]
The last Labour government was Tory lite. But your point is ridiculous and irrelevant. Until people are prepared to support a policy that will offer a better deal for ordinary workers this race to the bottom will continue.

What stupid studies??

Get your insensitive self out of here if you don't have anything good to say

Lots of families are eating FROM HAND TO MOUTH everyday with no savings at all

@saraclara

It doesn't matter if most people have emergency savings. Those people are not likely to be the the in poorly paying jobs that don't pay sick pay are they? In order to have emergency savings you have to have had some money at the end of the month to effing SAVE!

Seriously, it's those struggling to be in the black at the end of the month who live most precariously, and it's those of us who can save, who are the least likely to find ourselves in a situation where we need that emergency money.

I can't imagine how frustrating it is for OP to have people being so horribly patronising, and assuming that she doesn't know how to save, how to budget, or what she's entitled to. Of course she does. She's more practised at it than any of you.

Well said! It's so bloody holier than thou and condescending, assuming that someone is only in this situation because they are feckless spendthrifts or useless. Seem to forget they often rely on the services low paid and poorly respected jobs provide to do what they do.

Honestly it is appalling. So unfair to think people can "automatically" save.

Loads and loads of people are suffering and struggling with minimum wage jobs to feed their families.

I don't even have the words tbh

@Nsky

Always has sick pay, not annual leave, even then the first week not covered, it’s odd to expect hol to cover it

Is t it more odd that the company he works for doesn't pay sick pay?

@trilbydoll

If you let people take AL when they are sick you don't have accurate sickness records. And if someone uses all their AL when they're ill they're never having a proper holiday which isn't good for you. So despite them not paying him, the policy is meant to be for his wellbeing. Somehow.

Aren't you more concerned that the company doesn't pay sick pay? I thought that was a legal requirement. Don't all companies need to pay sick pay?

I appear to have woken up in a parallel universe. I had no idea that companies could have a 'no sick pay' policy. I'm horrified. I thought it was a legal requirement. I'm shocked and dismayed to have learnt this.

@superduster

All companies pay sick pay - SSP. Many just don't pay enhanced sick pay on top of that. Its not a lot of money but its not true to say they don't pay sick pay. The government hasn't paid small businesses for SSP since 2014.

You’re wrong - it’s the Government who pays it, it’s just paid through your employer payroll. They claim it back from the government. Not all employees are eligible for SSP, for example if you earn below the weekly threshold.

@honeybuns007

I appear to have woken up in a parallel universe. I had no idea that companies could have a 'no sick pay' policy. I'm horrified. I thought it was a legal requirement. I'm shocked and dismayed to have learnt this.

It's pretty much standard across jobs in hospitality, care and retail (well the ones I've done at least) the same ones that also have a lot of zero hours contracts, pay the minimum allowed by law and give very little in job benefits. My job advertised 'free uniform' as a benefit for example. I've had to pay for my own in other similar jobs. You can get SSP, which the employer claims back from the government, and can still face disciplinary action for being ill too often. For reference, I earn min wage, 30-40 hours, about £300 a week. SSP is around £95 a week. A week sick costs me £200. I work in care. Society and the government like to tell me about my duty of care to those in my care, yet no one gives a shit that I can be pushed into debt, potentially lose my home, not be able to pay my bills and have bailiffs at the door, for following that duty of care and not exposing them to an illness I may have. Not an ideal solution is it?

You have to pay to join a union too which some people cannot afford . Sorry OP people are having a go re emergency money, some people dont have a clue.

You can get SSP, which the employer claims back from the government, and can still face disciplinary action for being ill too often. Employers can not claim this back from the Gov, they pay it.

You’re wrong - it’s the Government who pays it, it’s just paid through your employer payroll. They claim it back from the government. Not all employees are eligible for SSP, for example if you earn below the weekly threshold. No you're wrong, Gov does not pay sick pay.

soontobe60
You’re wrong - it’s the Government who pays it, it’s just paid through your employer payroll. They claim it back from the government. Not all employees are eligible for SSP, for example if you earn below the weekly threshold.

Actually you’re wrong, employers can (mostly) not claim the SSP back unless they have a lot of employees off sick. The companies have to bear the cost. Employees are entitled to it if they earn a certain level.

@Belledan1

You have to pay to join a union too which some people cannot afford . Sorry OP people are having a go re emergency money, some people dont have a clue.

And employers don't have to recognise one, and statutory recognition only applies to companies with over 21 employees. But as quoted, many low waged workers can't afford to pay into a union anyway.

@Hairymoohead

You can get SSP, which the employer claims back from the government, and can still face disciplinary action for being ill too often. Employers can not claim this back from the Gov, they pay it.

I quite honestly couldn't give a fuck who pays it. If that's all you're bothered about then fine, the employer pays it. It's still fucking piss poor and pushes people into debt, if they're you know, human, and get ill now and again.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

Annual leave cannot be used in place of sickness leave. Indeed, if you book and go off on annual leave but then are Ill, the leave should be changed to reflect, and the annual leave added back into your entitlement.

If he is too sick to work, and needs to take leave because of it, then that leave needs to be sick leave.

I've been ill when I've been on AL and it's never occurred to me to let work know!

Our company policy is not to use AL for sickness. I generally allow it for an odd day but the manager is technically right.

@VeniVidiWeeWee

Why can't he use SSP.

Is he not an employee?

He was only off 4 days

It’s really bad how so many people on here don’t get sick pay....it shocks me ( I’m NHS ) ..... it must be such a worry , the thought of being ill and not being able to work.....I had 8 months off sick last year..... and the last thing I needed to worry about was not getting paid

In these circumstances I would say that as he has used AL to cover sick before his employers are reasonable to refuse this request- annual leave should be agreed in advance so work can be planned for. They've been flexible before but now they need to have accurate sickness records in case your DH's absence becomes persistent and they need to manage.

My DH doesn't get sick pay either - he's an HGV driver. His delayed kidney stone op cost us £3k last year with him having to take time off- would have been cheaper to pay for the op privately!

@sbhydrogen

I can't believe companies don't pay their staff when they're sick. That's atrocious.

It's really common in the private sector, especially in small companies.

I think employers should be required to pay at least a month's sick leave on full pay, and that there should be an insurance-based fund to cover it.

SSP is ludicrously low and has barely gone up for years and years.

One of the (few) advantages of UC is that for quite a few people it goes some way to making up the difference in the event of illness.