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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Declined Annual Leave, AIBU?

163 replies

blaisealex · 26/06/2021 18:57

The whole family was hit by a sickness bug this week meaning DH ended up being off work for four days, Tuesday to Friday.

He requested annual leave rather than losing money. This request was declined. Surely, this is unfair? The company don't pay sick pay. It's going to leave our family short by three hundred pounds next month which will mean we struggle to buy food next month and fuel our cars to get to and from work.

He has always used annual leave to cover sickness before and that has never been a problem. Only recently a colleague used AL when he was off with an injured knee.

So, AIBU to think this isn't fair and is there anything we can do?

OP posts:
FlaminEckVera · 26/06/2021 20:33

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

As an aside, is it normal for companies to not provide sick pay? I've always been NHS so sick pay is a given.
Unfortunately, yes it is normal. Many companies do not provide full sick pay (ie, your full wage.) Only for 'salaried' staff.
FlaminEckVera · 26/06/2021 20:34

@WinstonsWeirdVole

Clearly some posters have never had to try and support a family and run a household/car on a crap/precarious income where you literally don’t earn enough to be able to amass several hundred pounds between periods of sickness Hmm

YANBU at all. We need a major reform of sickness pay and wages in general but as a pp said there’s not much chance of that under a Tory government, sadly. Sorry you’ve had a bad time OP Flowers

THIS! ^

@blaisealex I am really sorry your DH's employer won't let him use his holiday leave. I kind of understand why, but that doesn't help you.

I agree with some others that the whole system needs reforming. It's disgusting that a person's wage goes down to less than £100 a week when they are off sick, unless they are 'staff/salaried' or whatever! Everyone should be paid at LEAST two thirds of their 'normal' income if they are off sick.

My DH is in a job like this, (where he only gets statutory sick pay if he's off sick,) And when the kids were much younger (early noughties,) and I was earning less, he was off for 10 weeks after having an operation. We lost around £1700 of his wages over those 10 weeks. It took us about a year and a half to recover from his 10 weeks off.

He had to work overtime whenever he could, and I took on extra hours too - to try and recover the lost income. He spent some years being afraid to have a day off, because we were on such a tight budget. I got paid if I was off sick luckily, but he didn't.

Fortunately, our outgoings are low now, the kids have left home, and I earn decent money. So he can afford to lose a few days here and there if need be, as we have a fair amount of surplus income, and quite a decent amount saved. It took til our late 40s to be in this position though.

But I agree with a few others that some people on here are clueless. MANY people live week to week and struggle terribly financially, and a hit of several hundred pounds lost, can affect them for a long time. And it is NOT unusual for people to have no savings. In fact, some people are even worse off. They are in debt too. With no way out of it, for a long, long time, if ever!

You have my sympathy OP. Flowers I have been where you are and it's fucking hard.

toconclude · 26/06/2021 20:36

@trilbydoll

If you let people take AL when they are sick you don't have accurate sickness records. And if someone uses all their AL when they're ill they're never having a proper holiday which isn't good for you. So despite them not paying him, the policy is meant to be for his wellbeing. Somehow.
Of course you can. Our system allows recording of sick leave taken as AL. Management can easily monitor this.
toconclude · 26/06/2021 20:44

@FlaminEckVera

Why should they, they are not wrong. The stats quoted above imply that 60 pc could manage a month on savings. Not much, but 'some small savings' was specified. How about YOU apologize for being so rude?
None of that applies to OP who's in a hard place for sure.

rwalker · 26/06/2021 20:45

It would open the gates for piss takers and if you got refused A/L people would just ring in sick then say can I take it as A/L .

As genuine as your case may be you can't pick and chose which employee you did this for so it would have to be a blanket no to everyone .

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 26/06/2021 20:45

@NannyAndJohn

YABU (or more rather, HIBU).

Don't like the policies, find another company to work for.

I agree. The terms of jobs are known before accepting and it’s wise to ensure you have a savings safety net especially when there are children to support and are trying for more.
rwalker · 26/06/2021 20:49

@WinstonsWeirdVole
YANBU at all. We need a major reform of sickness pay and wages in general but as a pp said there’s not much chance of that under a Tory government, sadly. Sorry you’ve had a bad time OP flowers.

Many companies can't afford to pay full pay for sick then pay for replacement cover in effect doubling there wage bills . Thats commons sense not government policy .

Elisannah · 26/06/2021 20:50

That sounds really hard, I just wanted to add that if you do struggle next month then please do look up your local food bank. They are there to help with these exact moments of crisis - I've always found them to be so helpful.

Soontobe60 · 26/06/2021 20:50

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

Annual leave cannot be used in place of sickness leave. Indeed, if you book and go off on annual leave but then are Ill, the leave should be changed to reflect, and the annual leave added back into your entitlement.

If he is too sick to work, and needs to take leave because of it, then that leave needs to be sick leave.

Where sick pay isn’t payable, then you CAN take AL in lieu of unpaid SL. www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave
BirthdayCakeBelly · 26/06/2021 20:51

Just googled it and unfortunately it’s a company decision.
I can’t think of a legitimate reason to decline this request. Is there a hr department that you could possibly appeal to? It feels mean to decline. Maybe he could ask for the rationale, because I can’t see how it would disadvantage the company to pay it as annual leave.
Sorry OP.
Ignore the shit ‘you should have an emergency fund’ comments.

Nocutenamesleft · 26/06/2021 20:53

I’m almost certain SSP can be used for more than 3 days off

Not from the 3rd day off.

So because he was off for 4 days. He’d get it. He wouldn’t of done had it been for 3. He’ll get the full 4 days too

Though I could of got that wrong.

Nocutenamesleft · 26/06/2021 20:54

Sadly. An employer doesn’t have to grant leave

It’s shit. But that’s how it is.

MaryShelley1818 · 26/06/2021 20:55

I work for Local Government and have also been refused AL when sick. As a previous Poster said the rules are designed for your wellbeing. (Ironically but I can see the logic)

nocoolnamesleft · 26/06/2021 20:55

The problem isn't that they won't let sick leave be taken as annual leave. The problem is that these companies are let get away with not paying sick leave, which is scandalous.

TrifleCat · 26/06/2021 20:59

OP i know it doesn’t help you but your DH employer is within their rights to ask this, however it absolutely stinks they don’t pay sick leave, some practical questions to ask are is your DH in a union? Or does his work have any emergency/discretionary pots? Or can you speak to citizens advice?

Nsky · 26/06/2021 20:59

I think you need to consider UC and try and get a fund behind, what happens when things break down, washing machine and the like?
Maybe s budget overhaul is needed?

Woeismethischristmas · 26/06/2021 21:05

The only place I knew did that was the civil service. You could take annual leave as Duvet days. I think up to 8 a year. They were used to cover emergency school pick ups, minor illness, mainly hangovers in my department. As a result everyone had really good attendance records.

FlaminEckVera · 26/06/2021 21:06

@BirthdayCakeBelly

Just googled it and unfortunately it’s a company decision. I can’t think of a legitimate reason to decline this request. Is there a hr department that you could possibly appeal to? It feels mean to decline. Maybe he could ask for the rationale, because I can’t see how it would disadvantage the company to pay it as annual leave. Sorry OP. Ignore the shit ‘you should have an emergency fund’ comments.
Agree with your last line here. ^

Some people are truly ignorant, and clueless as to what life is like for MANY people. Hmm

Some of the comments on here (from a few posters) are dreadful.

sbhydrogen · 26/06/2021 21:06

I can't believe companies don't pay their staff when they're sick. That's atrocious.

superduster · 26/06/2021 21:06

All companies pay sick pay - SSP. Many just don't pay enhanced sick pay on top of that. Its not a lot of money but its not true to say they don't pay sick pay. The government hasn't paid small businesses for SSP since 2014.

icelollycraving · 26/06/2021 21:08

Many many people scrape through from month to month. There is a distinct lack of empathy on here sometimes.

Original poster
blaisealex · 26/06/2021 21:12

Thanks for all the understanding comments! Neither DH or I have ever worked for a company that offer sick pay. I didn't even know it was a thing until I joined MN a few years ago! Luckily, DH rarely gets ill and hates having time off so this isn't a common problem for us and as I said, before it hasn't been a problem.being able to use AL to cover sickness. His wages won't be paid until the end of July so we have some time to make up the difference. I currently have DH listing some of my stuff on ebay to try and help. Though, I was hoping to sell those things to make a dent in the overdraft but now it'll be used to cover the shortfall in wages. And to the people who keep saying, you must of known they don't pay sick pay and if you don't like it, move company, etc. As if it's that easy. As I said, neither of us have ever worked for a company that pays sick pay. It might be a common benefit in the field you work in but not for us. Also, we don't get UC or Tax Credits.

OP posts:
Nat3kids · 26/06/2021 21:15

@nocoolnamesleft

The problem isn't that they won't let sick leave be taken as annual leave. The problem is that these companies are let get away with not paying sick leave, which is scandalous.
Totally agree!
Original poster
blaisealex · 26/06/2021 21:16

No, he isn't in a Union. Neither of us are and ever have been. Being in a Union was a sackable offence at the last company we both worked for. No, we don't have an emergency fund, yes, we are screwed if things break or one of us gets sick. We are both doing all we can at the moment to try and bring in more money. Such is life.

OP posts:
Original poster
blaisealex · 26/06/2021 21:17

And no, there is no budget over haul that can be done. Thanks for the suggestion but it's something I've done a thousand times and regularly keep on top off, making sure we are on all the best deals, making sure our outgoings are as minimal as possible, etc.

OP posts: