AIBU to think affairs are more common than we think

[YukiCarrot]

Just reading about Matt Hancock in the news, was pretty shocked.

This, coupled with some affairs I know of IRL has really rattled me, my trust in men is at an all time low. (i know women have affairs to!)

Has your DP/DH had an affair? Do you know of people who have?

The problem isn't lack of monogamy, the problem is that so many of these people don't seek out others the same, they want a faithful spouse at home and to shag away on the side.

Often the thrill of the "trick", getting one over on the faithful spouse, is part of the fun for the cheater. That's why we name it "cheating", that's was makes it wrong, and that's what causes a feeling of hmbetral and "heartbreak" in the faithful partner and damages their ability to trust again.

The cheater has deliberately defrauded a faithful person and they really aren't a decent person, can't be. If they were decent, they would leave first to release their spouse to find someone more compatible and/or they would date only those also shagging others.

@kindaclassy

There might be so much less stress, heartache and expense if people expected to have, for example, starter relationships in their 20s, a family-raising relationship in their 30s and 40s, then the freedom and flexibility in later life to date or have other long term relationships.

You want people to tell their partner that they will be ok to co-parent, but not interesting or exciting enough to bother staying with long term? That's attractive. 😂

I don't want people to do anything they don't want to. I'm just being realistic about the fact that monogamy doesn't work and trying to think of alternative structures.

Also, it wouldn't be one partner saying it to the other. The collective expectation would be that both partners don't necessarily have to stay with their co-parent until their deathbed (by which time they probably hate the sight of each other).

It's very common OP.

I've just sat and made a list of 10 random friends (in that I picked them from my "close friends" birthday list with my eyes closed).

And out of that 10 I know of 5 where there was an affair by one half or the other. 2 lead to divorce and 3 have stayed together, two seemingly for kids/lifestyle reason. Only one couple seems genuinely happier having had quite intensive therapy together.

So that's 50% of my random list.
Plus another one where there are many, many rumours of pulling random women when on lads nights/stag nights but no actual proof so a possible 60% cheating.

And Hancock is not shocking at all, fully expected it from an immoral prick like him. Feel sorry for his wife/her husband and kids though. Can't be fun waking up to that on the front page of the Sun.

@kindaclassy

my trust in men is at an all time low.

why men? Unless they are all gay, pretty sure there's a woman involved if someone cheats.

Matt H and his mistress are both married, why do you focus on the man cheating?

Women do cheat of course but the majority of those that do, appear to be men. You can bet your house that if everyone on this thread had to say whether the people they know have cheater were men/women, the majority of them would be men.

It’s not really surprising though is it, considering makes are biologically programmed to die they’d seeds far and wide. By nature women aren’t often like that.

sowe their seeds I mean

@IDontReadEyebrows

Just reading about Matt Hancock in the news, was pretty shocked.

Really? You’re shocked that an infamously inept idiot and a fucking Tory could be a cheating, duplicitous shit? Ok then…

I'm more shocked that anyone could fancy Matt Hancock than at anything else.

For me it’s the automatic assumption that a woman or man should leave their cheating partner that I find strange. And if the cheated on partner doesn’t leave then that’s because they’re weak, etc. So many people have bought into the myth of romance, happy forever after fantasy and so are shocked when their fantasy gets tarnished. I’m not saying that anyone should stay in a marriage where they’re unhappy but it wouldn’t be as hurtful if people hadn’t bought into the fairytale in the first place. Victoria Beckham is a good example - they seem to be a happy family unit in spite of his infidelities. She doesn’t need to stay but on balance it works for her.

I've found reading these answers pretty saddening.

I was cheated on and I think it is pretty back or white. You are either a decent person who ends a relationship before embarking on the next, or you are a shit.

The fact that so many pp are saying that it's just something that happens/not every one who cheats is a bad person etc. rather than condemning the people who cheat is one of the reasons it's so prevalent.

Not long ago we were talking about how we should be calling out the bad behaviour of men who hassle women. We should be calling out bad behaviour wherever it happens, and this includes cheating. It shouldn't be acceptable at all.

TheLeadbetterLife

did you stay, or felt pressure to stay with your partner due to collective expectation?

I never felt any of that.

There are more divorced parents in my kids school than still together!

@kindaclassy

Well of course, my plan would require the dismantling of thousands of years of patriarchal norms, as well as a major change in the way people handle their finances and careers. Apart from that, though...

you do know that women have the right to divorce at any time, for any reason they choose, don't you? They don't even have to get married in the first place, pretty sure we are able to function as independently as any man.

I don't think you're getting what I'm saying.

The very concept of monogamy is completely ingrained in society, but clearly it's not actually what is happening, so maybe it's not a great idea.

The fact that (in the last few decades in some countries) women can divorce whenever they like isn't really the point. Divorce is expensive and stressful, and only needs to exist because we're all buying into the idea of monogamy.

@Snookie00

For me it’s the automatic assumption that a woman or man should leave their cheating partner that I find strange. And if the cheated on partner doesn’t leave then that’s because they’re weak, etc. So many people have bought into the myth of romance, happy forever after fantasy and so are shocked when their fantasy gets tarnished. I’m not saying that anyone should stay in a marriage where they’re unhappy but it wouldn’t be as hurtful if people hadn’t bought into the fairytale in the first place. Victoria Beckham is a good example - they seem to be a happy family unit in spite of his infidelities. She doesn’t need to stay but on balance it works for her.

I think Victoria Beckham, Coleen Rooney et al are mugs who have traded their self-respect for 'celebrity'. Neither of these women would be household names if not for the cheating slimeballs men they married.

@TheGoogleMum

Where I used to work I heard some of the married men did still pull women on nights out. Don't think it tended to be a repeated affair with the same woman though. I was quite surprised about 1 in particular who seemed happy in his relationship! I am confident DH hasn't cheated. I'm not sure where he would find time!

I think you could probably say that of Matt Hancock....

@TableFlowerss. How does that work then? Are these men cheating with other men or in your mind is it married men cheating with single women? Both sexes cheat. Women may be better and more subtle at doing it or perhaps the wives are better at picking up the clues than the oblivious husbands.

Victoria Beckham was way more successful than her husband when they met

The very concept of monogamy is completely ingrained in society, but clearly it's not actually what is happening, so maybe it's not a great idea.

if you look at "open relationships", that rarely work out so well either.
People don't like to share.

@Backhills

Victoria Beckham was way more successful than her husband when they met

so true!

I'm not talking about open relationships (I agree they rarely work, neither does poly). I'm talking about serial monogamy.

@TheLeadbetterLife. I like your style and your thinking but it's a way off where most people will go as society currently stand. Most people in my experience would much prefer to live a life of pretence, of don't ask, don't tell and are far too afraid to OPENLY step outside the norm or conventions (hence doing it secretly). I think some of the Scandinavian countries might order relationships, parenting etc in a way that is more realistic about how people actually are...I'd love to hear from other mumsnetters as to whether I am talking bollocks in that regard.

@Sandra15 but why have they lost their self respect because they’ve made a choice that works for them? Who are you to say they’ve made the wrong decision? They might be of the view that it’s not a deal breaker and that on balance they’re happier to stay with the person.

I think that there are certain social or working groups where it's really common and therefore a lot easier to do, be forgiven and be accepted socially.

Which isn't to say that it never happens elsewhere, only that people are far less likely to have opportunities to cheat and it's less likely to come out.

One of my best friends fell in with a couple of women who openly cheated on their long term partners whilst at university. (One of whom is still with the man she cheated on, and he cheated on her multiple times also)

Our "home" group gave her extensive support about one awful relationship, and it came out via those friends at her hen do that she'd cheated on her ex with her fiance (who also had a fiance) for MONTHS before she told us they started seeing each other - and she cheated on the fiance too at a home friend's wedding.

She looked mortified, and we had to keep under wraps how shocked we were whilst the woman who spilled the beans crowed about "we've all been there, haven't we girls".

But I think it's hugely varies how prevalent it is. There will be people who say it's common and that others are deluding themselves, but I'd say equally that there is also an element of self-delusion going on there. Because being sexually faithful is seen as superior, it's comforting to consider "failure" to be common, and to hold superior knowledge.

Not unlike plenty of other circumstances where people prefer to believe worse of everyone instead of making a better effort themselves.

On my random list of people I know I’d say there’s a rate of cheating about about 60% . I only know one woman who cheated for then went on to marry her affair partner. In all the other cases it’s been the man, sometimes physically, sometimes an emotional affair or sexting. Nearly all the couples stay together and nearly all the guys seem some lovely blokes who watch their DC play footie on Saturday morning, seem kind and caring to their wife and a genuinely nice person. In every case I know it’s with a younger woman that the husband works with.

YABU to be surprised Hancock is having an affair. That man screams slimeball.

YANBU - years ago it used to be the default position to be faithful to your long term partner. Now the default position seems to be to be unfaithful to your partner. It's horrid and it makes me glad i'm single.

@Notadramallama

I've found reading these answers pretty saddening.

I was cheated on and I think it is pretty back or white. You are either a decent person who ends a relationship before embarking on the next, or you are a shit.

The fact that so many pp are saying that it's just something that happens/not every one who cheats is a bad person etc. rather than condemning the people who cheat is one of the reasons it's so prevalent.

Not long ago we were talking about how we should be calling out the bad behaviour of men who hassle women. We should be calling out bad behaviour wherever it happens, and this includes cheating. It shouldn't be acceptable at all.

But if it really is so common as people on this thread are saying and if all those people were as bad as you say, inherently not decent then how could we even have any kind of a decent functioning society? I know people who have cheated on their spouses who are wonderful people, who do more for their community/wider society than 10 other non-cheaters put together. O know someone who is a fantastic paramedic who cheated on her husband, another who is a committed and wonderful teacher whose husband won't have sex with her and yes, she has an arrangement with a friend. And I say good luck to her.

@MsTSwift

Journalist ?🙄

Can't journalists usually spell?