AIBU to think affairs are more common than we think

[YukiCarrot]

Just reading about Matt Hancock in the news, was pretty shocked.

This, coupled with some affairs I know of IRL has really rattled me, my trust in men is at an all time low. (i know women have affairs to!)

Has your DP/DH had an affair? Do you know of people who have?

@MrsKrystalStubbs

I’ve just read that his wife is an aristo so I doubt she will leave him.

Eh? Why should his wife’s background decide whether she leaves him or not?

@Millymog

"There might be so much less stress, heartache and expense if people expected to have, for example, starter relationships in their 20s, a family-raising relationship in their 30s and 40s, then the freedom and flexibility in later life to date or have other long term relationships."

But the above model completely removes the idea of love from the equation. Part of any romantic (and many other) human relationships involves vulnerability and weakness on one or both parties involved - the idea of love (not just attraction but commitment) is supposed to mitigate against that.

You can have the above model of lifetime relationships but it just makes the entire thing totally mercenary

Marriage is mercenary - it was devised as a financial contract between families and to control female childbirth.

Most marriages go on far longer than the initial love does.

Most people love several people over the course of a lifetime - why not acknowledge this and structure society so that those loves can be acted upon without a shit load of upheaval, judgement and cost? Especially since many, many people are going to act upon their love anyway.

I’m not shocked. There’s no such thing a a faithful MP surely? They’re like footballers in that respect.

I think affairs have always been more common than many of us realised but there's no doubt modern life and technology make it easier to have an affair these days if you want to.

I'm mostly surprised that anyone wanted to have an affair with Hancock! The lover is rich and attractive and I know she's been friends with Hancock since university but still?

My SIL had an affair many years ago, she's literally the last person on the planet you'd think would do something like that! She's relentlessly nice, kind, hard-working, religious and a complete goody two-shoes except that it turns out she wasn't so perfect after all! She worked things out with my BIL and she's gone back to being a stepford wife.

They're very common. Online dating in the kink scene is full of men saying their wives wouldn't understand so they feel they have no choice but to cheat. I've even had men send me selfies with their wife and kids badly cropped out or faces scribbled over.

That's not to say women aren't as bad. I stopped talking to a very good friend because she slept with her best friends boyfriend, despite her friend telling her she thought her bf was interested in her and that it made her feel very insecure. I thought that was so cruel. Then she tried to kiss me while my DH was working away.

@kindaclassy

my trust in men is at an all time low.

why men? Unless they are all gay, pretty sure there's a woman involved if someone cheats.

Matt H and his mistress are both married, why do you focus on the man cheating?

I find the word mistress so demeaning. It implies an unequal situation when affairs are 50/50 partnerships.

Most people love several people over the course of a lifetime - why not acknowledge this and structure society so that those loves can be acted upon without a shit load of upheaval, judgement and cost? Especially since many, many people are going to act upon their love anyway.
What exactly are you supposing we do to society to facilitate this, that isn't already there.
No one is forcing marriage, or making people to stay in relationships that are not working.
Stigma is rightly attached to lying cheating scum bags, not to people doing the decent thing and ending a relationship that has run its course correctly.

@Millymog

"There might be so much less stress, heartache and expense if people expected to have, for example, starter relationships in their 20s, a family-raising relationship in their 30s and 40s, then the freedom and flexibility in later life to date or have other long term relationships."

But the above model completely removes the idea of love from the equation. Part of any romantic (and many other) human relationships involves vulnerability and weakness on one or both parties involved - the idea of love (not just attraction but commitment) is supposed to mitigate against that.

You can have the above model of lifetime relationships but it just makes the entire thing totally mercenary

Traditionally marriage was not about love. It was about finances, obligation, control (on the man’s part) and bringing up children. It is a modern notion that marriage is due to love and attraction.

I pretty much assumed that cheating was for the powerful elite - the people who need an adrenaline rush from winning an election or a football game, or are used to admiration for their looks or power. I've never had an affair, and no one's ever propositioned me; I only know of one couple where one of them cheated (man, much younger OW). So I'm surprised that it seems to be prevalent (according to this thread) among ordinary people!

Considering most affairs are kept secret for obvious reasons, it's quite likely more are happening than you know about

Backhills

" If they can keep it quiet no one gets hurt"

I couldn't disagree more. This is so wrong.

And that is the case (that it is wrong) even ignoring the fact that more often than not the truth comes out some way or another eventually.

And the consequences always go way beyond the 3 people involved.

Yes! That I know of over the years, I've started seeing 4 men who told me they were single, then I found out were married. As soon as I found out I ended it immediately, but I can see how some women may choose to continue.

I also have two friends both married under 5 years, have had their husbands have affairs with colleagues.

If lifelong monogamy was normal and natural for humans, there would be no need for marriage at all.

@SquirrelFan

I pretty much assumed that cheating was for the powerful elite - the people who need an adrenaline rush from winning an election or a football game, or are used to admiration for their looks or power. I've never had an affair, and no one's ever propositioned me; I only know of one couple where one of them cheated (man, much younger OW). So I'm surprised that it seems to be prevalent (according to this thread) among ordinary people!

How bizarre, I don't mean to be rude but you must have led a very sheltered life! In my experience I would nearly say the opposite. Infidelity is rife in the village where I grew up, lots of 'ordinary' people who stayed there, never lived away for college or work, haven't had the most exciting of lives objectively speaking and they are getting their kicks and excitement this way. That's my theory on it anyway. But there's lots of subsets in society where it's more common than others - for example people in very intense jobs with long hours, comradeship and heightened emotions like police, paramedics etc. It really is everywhere, so much so that it could be said to be more normal than not

I was in a relationship a few years ago and blissfully happy. We'd been together for a year and a half. I was staying over at his and went off to have a shower. While I was in there a workman knocked his door to come and do a job in the garden. He was a day early so totally unexpected but as he was in the area and had finished his last job earlier than he'd thought he asked if now was a good time. All this was going on while I was in the shower so I got out and got dressed because I could hear voices. My boyfriend was outside with this guy talking him through the job. Obviously completely distracted and forgot he'd left his phone on the bed. You know what I'm going to say next. His Facebook was open and a big exchange of rude private messages on there between him and some blonde woman he'd met years ago. Lovely. We had a massive argument when he got in. He couldn't even explain why he'd messaged her. He said there was nothing going on. I ended it with him a few weeks later. I tried to keep things going but I couldn't look at him the same. Not when I knew what he wanted to do to that woman. And she was more than happy to go there as well. Just why? I think he craved the attention but I have him loads. I still don't get it

"so that those loves can be acted upon without a shit load of upheaval, judgement and cost? Especially since many, many people are going to act upon their love anyway."

because there are almost always, always innocents involved and not only innocents but innocents in their formative evolving years who cannot provide their own role models / protection / resources they need to grow up.
In other words - children.

Even if as Snookie00 says society reverts to how it was done in the "olden days" i.e child bearing and families were very much a transaction of finances/inheritance/obligation etc that still does not remove the fact that very young people who have no control over anything are entirely at the whim of those who "act upon their love anyway".

Very common. Yes. The question should be have you, your DH or WF or anyone you know had an affair. I guess the answer would be 100%

theleafandnotthetree

"It really is everywhere, so much so that it could be said to be more normal than not"

I agree with the above.
Which is why I often think that a lot of fairy tales or stories read to children and specifically young girls about "happy ever after" are often a cynical way of society to encourage young girls to crave and dream about growing up getting married and having children in a "nuclear" family set up.
Because if so many young girls did not long for that (on a conscious or sub conscious level) then the birth rate would drop even more than it has in recent decades.............

@TheLeadbetterLife

Of course it's common.

It would be better in my opinion if society was able to move towards the idea of serial monogamy being accepted as the norm, rather than the outdated notion of staying with one person until death (which was only ever devised as a way of controlling women, so that men could try to ensure their offspring was really theirs).

This of course would involve individuals being financially independent of each other.

There might be so much less stress, heartache and expense if people expected to have, for example, starter relationships in their 20s, a family-raising relationship in their 30s and 40s, then the freedom and flexibility in later life to date or have other long term relationships.

I totally agree with this. I think the idea of remaining with, and being sexually faithful to, one person from the age of, say, 30 until you die is ridiculous and I find it fairly astonishing that we cling to the idea that this is either normal or healthy.

There's an argument for monogamy and cohabitation when raising young children. But the idea that you have to remain with this person for life is so unhealthy and damaging.

The idea of yoking your financial security together with your sexual and romantic preferences is a recipe for trouble. It may make sense to combine finances with someone you have got pregnant by in your 20s but the idea that in your 50s you aren't allowed to be with anyone else is just ludicrously punitive.

My personal view is that single parent households are a much better way to deal with this: having a woman fully accountable for her own financial security without having to rely on a man seems to be a good way to improve outcomes for women and children. The problem is that women often don't earn enough to make this work and factor in the high cost of housing and its understandable that marriage or cohabitation seem appealing. In reality, they are often a recipe for this sort of tension where people who don't belong together become trapped.

here might be so much less stress, heartache and expense if people expected to have, for example, starter relationships in their 20s, a family-raising relationship in their 30s and 40s, then the freedom and flexibility in later life to date or have other long term relationships

Considering the divorce rate, and the lack of marrying in the first place, I would argue that this is exactly what most people do in fact expect.

@HomicidalPsychoJungleCat

OllyBjolly, with respect, that you assume those who have affairs don't do this ‘ The "better" course of action is to try to make the married relationship work, especially when children are involved, before hopping into the next garden where the grass looks greener.’ Is very short sighted. I tired for years, and I do mean years to work on my marriage. I did so alone, with a partner not willing to face our issues, his own demons or get help in anyway, yet quite happy for me to make gargantuan efforts in every way, including years of counselling. Yet, amongst our family and friends I am the whore. There is more than one way to cheat on someone. Denying them a happy relationship, that leads to companionship and a feeling of attractiveness, and worthiness and decent sex life is just as hurtful emotionally as sleeping with someone else. I say that as someone also cheated on in the past by someone I deeply loved. The damage my ex husband did to my self worth will take the rest of my life to recover from. He has already moved on.

I am so sorry to hear that you faced that kind of judgement. With the exception of one woman in my community who now blanks me - and she disliked me before - I really faced none of that. I have no doubt that many or even most thought it was a wrong thing to do and saw me a bit differently after, this was never communicated to me either overtly or even in a passive aggressive kind of way. Even my exs family continue to speak to me and treat me reasonably warmly. My own were very unjudgemental. I think that the fact that I took my punishment in terms of leaving the family home, agreeing to 50/50 custody having been the main parent, settled for far less than I was legally entitled and my ex husband acted pretty poorly too ( as do most people in these scenarios, he was hurt, humiliated and lashing out)....maybe these swung things in such a way that I didn't experience what other people in my situation commonly do.

I totally agree that there are a million ways to be a bad husband or wife but infidelity seems to trump everything for some people. I can totally understand people in terrible, loveless even abusive marriages seeking love and affirmation in someone else but it's a really bad idea because some people will see you as the bad guy regardless of context.

Sadly, very acceptable today, because there's no stigma or moral outrage there's always someone who will accept previously unfaithful partners.

@Millymog

"so that those loves can be acted upon without a shit load of upheaval, judgement and cost? Especially since many, many people are going to act upon their love anyway."

because there are almost always, always innocents involved and not only innocents but innocents in their formative evolving years who cannot provide their own role models / protection / resources they need to grow up.
In other words - children.

Even if as Snookie00 says society reverts to how it was done in the "olden days" i.e child bearing and families were very much a transaction of finances/inheritance/obligation etc that still does not remove the fact that very young people who have no control over anything are entirely at the whim of those who "act upon their love anyway".

But the suggestion I made above was for people to remain monogamous during the child rearing years. My idea is to remove the expectation that two people should and must stay together forever, hopefully then reducing infidelity and dishonesty.

My personal view is that single parent households are a much better way to deal with this: having a woman fully accountable for her own financial security without having to rely on a man seems to be a good way to improve outcomes for women and children. The problem is that women often don't earn enough to make this work and factor in the high cost of housing and its understandable that marriage or cohabitation seem appealing.

But this would put the onus on women to raise children to an even greater extent than it is now, leaving men to live their lives completely free of responsibility.

A societal expectation of total fidelity and co-parenting during the child-raising years, with the freedom to pursue other relationships before and after, might give both men and women more fulfilled lives.

People could then plan their finances and careers expecting to be self-sufficient, but there could be stricter financial rules for parents to make sure that things are evened out and fair during the child rearing years.

Your trust in men? Are these men all having homosexual affairs?