AIBU to think affairs are more common than we think

[YukiCarrot]

Just reading about Matt Hancock in the news, was pretty shocked.

This, coupled with some affairs I know of IRL has really rattled me, my trust in men is at an all time low. (i know women have affairs to!)

Has your DP/DH had an affair? Do you know of people who have?

@SecretSpAD

Fucking of course. No ducks are harmed in paying my dogs vets bills.

Could have been a peeking duck! (sic)

No, my husband hasn't had an affair. I'd say majority of people I know have cheated to varying degrees over the course of time, but certainly not all.

Human beings are complex creatures

Are they though? Or do they just like fuckin about like all animals?

@Ijustknowitstimetogo

Human beings are complex creatures

Are they though? Or do they just like fuckin about like all animals?

Humans behave like animals

Humans behave like animals

Some humans, we're not all selfish bastards governed by our genitals.

Its really sad reading this thread. Affairs maybe common place, but they are certainly not the norm.
I hate to think of someone reading this after discovering an affair and trying to convince themselves to disregard the hurt and pain it causes, because affairs are so normal and 'everyone's at it', which is precisely what a cheat would want you to believe.

Humans are the most complex of creatures

No one is saying that because it happens so often that it’s not hurtful or people are not selfish of course it’s terribly hurtful can cause immense pain to so many when someone has cheated on their partner

But why is it the be all and end all to promise yourself to one person for the rest of your life.

Just to put a different slant on it, I met DH at work, he was very senior, married. We were always very attracted to each other but nothing happened. Not even flirting. Worked together a couple of years. Years later, after I had left that company, we bumped into each other - both single by then - and have been together ever since.
So it is perfectly possible to stay faithful to partners neither of us were happy with even though you are faced with someone you are very attracted to every single day.

No one is saying that because it happens so often that it’s not hurtful or people are not selfish of course it’s terribly hurtful can cause immense pain to so many when someone has cheated on their partner

You are trying to normalise something that is incredibly painful to experience, with a 'well everyone's at it'. They are not. It's not a rare occurrence, but not everyone is cheating and having affairs.
We are living in the 21st century, if a relationship is not working then there are many options available to end it, cheating is for people that are too cowardly to have an honest conversation, or walk away from a relationship that is no longer working.

What about not having an affair because of the respect you have for your partner?

People say when the trust goes that's the end and I agree. But there's also the respect thing. If I cheated on my husband it would be disrespectful to him and our marriage. Ditto if he cheated on me. Cheating is not and is never OK. It's thoughtless for the other person's feelings and selfish about their own.

By all means end a relationship because you're attracted to someone else but don't disrespect your partner to be second best if the affair doesn't work out.

Having me on the back burner for when you want something you can't get from the affair is hugely disrespectful to the fact that I don't want to be someone's second best.

Also you can't have your cake and eat it. That's not how life works. You make a decision to cheat and that means you've chosen something else. You can't flip a switch and go back to how it was before. Actions have consequences. So think them all through before you act.

My FIL cheated on MIL throughout their whole marriage She'd find out, tell him to stop and he would. Till the next time. Unfortunately in his 70s he had yet another affair and refused to give her up. He wanted MIL to essentially be his housekeeper and OW to be his sex. Disrespectful to both of them in my opinion. MIL wouldn't be part of that arrangement and they're now divorced. Sge wishes she'd done it years ago as now she's 80 and all alone. Whereas he has sex on tap and a second chance at happiness. It's shit and has strongly influenced my view on cheating.

But why is it the be all and end all to promise yourself to one person for the rest of your life

But you do promise and if you want to break that promise there are more honourable ways to do it thank sneak around having affairs. When I found out about XH's affair, it wasn't so much the affair that hurt, or being left with no income and 2 DCs under 3, it was the fact he had lied to me for over a year. Many years on, that still hurts now. I deserved better than that.

I meant why have we been conditioned to believe this is how things should be (I should have made that clear)

Of course it makes sense when choosing a partner to have children with to provide support for the children. Also marriage was very much about ownership of women men would own them and their property (for those that came from wealth)

But the idea that we have one partner in life or more now days for most we have one partner we promise ourselves to doesn’t just come from being practical it’s a romantic ideal and also one that keeps society in some sort of order

That’s fine if you think that, then don’t commit to someone, if you do commit then don’t cheat.

I meant why have we been conditioned to believe this is how things should be (I should have made that clear)
I'm late 40's I don't know anyone from my generation that has gone into marriage and realistically expected it to last forever. Love will give you hope, but enough people from my age group and younger, will have experienced, or witnessed divorce to make it a fairly unrealistic prospect.
So I don't think there is an expectation that you will be 'together forever' anymore, but I would expect someone that presumably once loved me to have the decency to end a relationship with courtesy and respect. No stigma around that.

Really ? So they married what for practical reasons ?

Of course we should expect that but as with many things in life what we expect and what plays out is unfortunately very different

Circumstances are hugely varied. Disabled partner, abusive husband, sex addict... some will garner sympathy, some utter disdain.
During the war, soldiers and wives broke vows in significant numbers, but I doubt they all intended it... circumstances undoubtedly contributed to it. Of course personal morality still plays a massive part, but there are clearly contributing factors too.

Would a person be tempted to steal? For most people no. Put them in a very difficult financial situation and a need to feed children, then they might be swayed.

Nobody chooses prostitution, and yet many exist. Again, circumstances.

saw the title and this came to mind

[quote godmum56]saw the title and this came to mind [/quote]
Yeah, exactly...

Of course it's more common.
What I find strange is how many people here are happy not having sex with their spouses (your choice) but expect those spouses to not have any affairs, not flirt with any one and not watch any porn.
There are definitely many people having affairs, whether you like it or not. Of course they'll say they are not, you'll have all access to their phones, the bank accounts and everything else.
Until you find that spare phone under the car seat...

Quite common and not always the people you might think! Not happened to me but far too many people I know not only have husbands who have had affairs but who turn a blind eye to them.

I hate to think of someone reading this after discovering an affair and trying to convince themselves to disregard the hurt and pain it causes, because affairs are so normal and 'everyone's at it', which is precisely what a cheat would want you to believe.

I don't think people discussing that it's happened throughout time are trying to convince others to disregard the pain of this. In fact, I think it's the opposite - it's trying to make seen what is too often hushed behind closed doors for people to bear on their own and discussions on ways to make it less common.

I grew up feeling like the maternal abuse I lived with was my fault and should not be talked about, that it was a shameful secret for me to hide even while there were people on TV joking about parents beating their kids. Talking to others and hearing how much more common it is than I thought when I was younger and measures people have put in or consider would help didn't make me feel like my pain should be disregarded. It helped me feel more comfortable talking about it, feel like it wasn't my fault, that I have nothing to hide from how my parents and wider community behaved, and that yes there might ways to make it less likely to happen to someone else to discuss.

Some people just do shitty things and we're all in systems, some of which incentivize those shitty behaviours. Normalizing talking about it happening means victims can talk about it too and have their feelings heard - even with the attitude that in some circles it's very common, like the serious and joking remarks about politicians. There are many comments about how 'in my day, all kids got beaten', but we can reply with 'possibly, and that's a shitty thing." and discuss various ways that has been reduced and could be further reduced - some with 'people should be less shitty', some with social structural changes, some with social shifts in expectations which aren't entirely consistent - divorce and having a partner be unfaithful still has stigma in many communities, no matter how common either may appear in other circles. Unfair, but we only change that by discussing and giving more support, not by contributing the push to act like talking about it causes too much harm.

I don't think people discussing that it's happened throughout time are trying to convince others to disregard the pain of this. In fact, I think it's the opposite - it's trying to make seen what is too often hushed behind closed doors for people to bear on their own and discussions on ways to make it less common.
That isn't what I'm getting from this thread, what I am hearing is people attempting to normalise shitty behaviour and dismissing it as the 'human condition', 'to be expected in a long term relationship' , 'decent people can cheat' , 'we're animals' etc. not much condemnation of what amounts to despicable behaviour going in in this thread.

@comebacksunshines

I don't think people discussing that it's happened throughout time are trying to convince others to disregard the pain of this. In fact, I think it's the opposite - it's trying to make seen what is too often hushed behind closed doors for people to bear on their own and discussions on ways to make it less common. That isn't what I'm getting from this thread, what I am hearing is people attempting to normalise shitty behaviour and dismissing it as the 'human condition', 'to be expected in a long term relationship' , 'decent people can cheat' , 'we're animals' etc. not much condemnation of what amounts to despicable behaviour going in in this thread.

The initial question was if it's more common than we think, and for many it is - depending on how common you think it is in the first place.

People are explaining that we can wear rose coloured spectacles and believe it is a rare occurrence, or we can look a little deeper and learn it's not particularly rare at all.

People then start to point to the abhorrence of it, the morality of it, the damage done etc, whilst others try to explain why it happens or how humanity, good and bad influences it.

People are trying to explain how it isn't something that happens to 'other people'. It can happen to folks that never expected it, or sought it. It's not condoning it, it's spelling it out for folks who think they are immune or morally superior.

Of those that say 'I would never do it' - many don't and some end up doing so.
Of those that say 'I never have' - many haven't, and some are lying.

In the course of a lifetime, there is an extremely high probability that someone close you (partner, parent, child, sibling) will have been unfaithful. They aren't evil-doers. They are normal people.

My SIL had an affair, 6 months after her marriage to my brother, who she had been with for 10 years. She denied it but it was pretty obvious when she shacked up with the new guy (her manager) and had his baby a year later. Disgusting behaviour and it broke my brother's heart.

comebacksunshines One of the things I find annoying these days is how people have to caveat the obvious and even sometimes then, people will still say that discussing the horrible parts of human society is promoting it. Some may be defeatist to infidelity, but just because people aren't starting every post condemning it and some view it as normalized in some circles like in pockets of Westminster where that does seem to be the case, doesn't mean people think it's a great thing to do.

I've discussed maternal violence by referencing animals before - we all know some animal mothers kill their young, there is research into prevention methods, but there is still a lot we don't know. It's even more so when it comes to humans - for large swathes of history even until this day, there are spaces where infanticide is treated as a normal option. I'm not promoting it when I discuss that, the context should be enough to get that and most get that discussing the reality of it and dig into why things happen are the first steps towards finding ways to reduce it which is something multiple people in this thread have been interested in talking about and then called horrible things for pointing out things like marriage is a risky way to protect vulnerable people, longer relationships by the very nature of going on longer are more likely to have the worst parts of relationships like infidelity, there may be biological reasons for us as animals as well as social incentives that enable that kind of disgusting behaviour. We have a lot of biological impulses we've been able to incentivize away through various social means, recognizing they're there doesn't mean saying people should follow them. Violent impulses are natural, we still largely train children to control them and consider whether they're good or bad in the context they're used.

I wouldn't say the people I've known to cheat are good people, but there are many others I don't know to make any measure of them and even as a faithful person once I chose to be monogamous, I wouldn't say that I'm a good person either. Too many of the worst cheaters I've known were wrapped up in being good people, they all had their reasons, but mostly they were people in communities that would mostly protect them and their 'good' status while shaming and shunning the other person often combined with situations where leaving wasn't acceptable or an option they felt they could access, but the community largely ignored drugs/infidelity/whatever behind closed doors as long as the image was upheld. It's amazing in how many communities that go on about family values have people in power who ignore all that for themselves or hide/excuse it for those they care about while going on about how disgusting the world is because other people do the same thing. Power imbalance is a stumbling block for thinking shame on its own is going to stop people - not everyone will get shamed the same so just saying it's bad does very little.