To think if you have dc then you have to stay with their dad? Unless there’s abuse / cheating

[Rollingsunset]

I’m really not very happy but I am of the opinion that if you have dc then your happiness doesn’t really matter anymore and unless there’s abuse / cheating which is clearly cut and dry, there’s a duty to keep the family together?
I wish I didn’t feel like this, because I have so much guilt tied up in everything. I’m not happy but I don’t feel it’s ‘bad’ enough. It’s nothing I can change or improve, it’s just as it is. The dc and DH are ok though so I feel like I owe it to them to keep it together.
AIBU to think that once you have children it doesn’t matter how happy you are? You have to do everything you can to keep the family as a unit?

@CrotchetyQuaver just seen your post too and can empathise. OP please realise I too had to go through 2 years of intensive counselling in my 30s to finally realise what made me happy. Much of that down to the modelling my mother gave me as she taught me through her actions that life wasn't about being happy as that was secondary to "doing the right thing" or even worse "being seen to do the right thing".

I still remember sitting in my first session and being asked why I was there and saying "I don't know" but then adding "I would like to know what music I like and what books I like"! It was a breakthrough moment for me, even though I didn't know it at the time because it was the start of me slowly learning to know what made me happy! And THAT was a direct result of not being taught how to be happy by my mother.

I think parents owe it to their children to give it their best shot. To ride out the rough patches and work through the little jiggles of married life.

However!!!! That’s not what’s happening for you OP and you deserve so much better! No sex? No days out together?? That’s not a marriage or a family so theres nothing to salvage.

I meant niggles lol.

If you live a miserable life what message is that giving your children?

If that's your view then I assume that's what you'd want for your children? If they come to you confiding they are so unhappy and there's no love in their marriage, you'd say it doesn't matter how you feel. You must stay together because only your children matter. Just accept the fact you will be miserable and lonely in your marriage until one of you dies.

That's what you'd tell your kids?

Nope. You have a duty of care to your children to ensure they grow up realising that staying in a miserable relationship isn’t an acceptable thing to do. Everyone has the right to feel happy and children aren’t stupid, they will know you’re miserable.

Its not the 50s anymore is that what you want to tteach your children stay with someone even though youre miserable?

I would say your dh ha sit very easy doesnt he doesnt do any chores or daily grind stuff just lets the wife get on with it

@VettiyaIruken

If that's your view then I assume that's what you'd want for your children? If they come to you confiding they are so unhappy and there's no love in their marriage, you'd say it doesn't matter how you feel. You must stay together because only your children matter. Just accept the fact you will be miserable and lonely in your marriage until one of you dies.

That's what you'd tell your kids?

And that’s exactly what the OP’s parents are doing, despite not liking the DH.

Can you see how these attitudes get passed on OP? Your children will copy your behaviour.

Personally, I think that staying in an unhappy relationship "for the sake of the kids" is one of the most selfish things a parent can actually do. As others have pointed out, far more eloquently than I, staying when you don't love, respect, or trust the person you chose to bring children into the world with... fucks those children up! For life! Philip Larkin had it spot on when he said about how parents fuck their children up - and he lived in an era where marriages were meant to last for life.

My mother stayed with my father, having left him when I was 3. He had an affair, she found out, packed a suitcase when he was at work one day, took me out of playgroup early and we caught a train to the other end of the country, where my grandparents and brothers lived. I have absolutely no recollection of this whatsoever - I would simply have thought we were having a little holiday. DB2 remembers it vividly, however, as he was 13 at the time - my grandparents refused to help my mother, kept saying she'd "made [her] bed and now had to lie in it"... and after a few days, we went back to my father again. Their marriage has been absolutely miserable ever since. When I was 3, they'd been married for 8 years. They "celebrate" 50 years of marriage next month. And my childhood? Their shining example of marriage, handed down to not only myself but also my brothers? Is the reason why I will never get married. Ever. I'd not wish to inflict it upon my children. I've always walked away from a relationship if I was unhappy in it. And yes; I know not everyone has the strength to do that - my mother, for instance... but she had the excuse that this was the late '70s and yes, life would have been hard for her as a single mother. She would have survived it, though... and who knows - I might have had a childhood filled with the security of peace, rather than rows behind closed doors, the skill of walking on eggshells learnt before I even started school, and for a long while the belief that because I was female? It was my "role" in a relationship to be passive. Oh, and also the burden of guilt because my mother still frequently tells me that it's my fault she chose to return to my adulterous father.

Please don't heap any such things onto your children, OP, because they will not be as oblivious to your marriage as you actually believe them to be. They'll know. Children are smarter than they often look. Especially when it comes down to matters concerning their own parents - the people who ought to be putting them first, rather than an outdated, ridiculous notion that martying oneself for them is the way to go...

It's really not.

Yabu

It's very telling that abuse and cheating are the only reasons that you can think of. You'd stay if your h became an addict? Went to prison? Wanted to work overseas when you wanted to stay in the UK? Came out as gay or trans? And so on

You are setting your children a terrible example of how adult relationships should be by sticking with a dead marriage. By dragging it out rather than ending things quickly, you risk a more difficult co-parenting relationship because of the resentment that has built over the years.

Anecdotally I think that divorce is harder for older kids than younger ones. Younger kids can be happier with separated parents if they are both committed parents. My kids spent more quality time with their Dad post divorce than immediately before and the least affected is my youngest - a pattern that I see in other families too. Staying for the kids is a horrible burden to place on the kids and you are kidding yourself if you think that splitting when you're youngest finished A-levels will be easier.

@Rollingsunset

It’s just impossible to know how badly the dc would be impacted unless I did it - it’s a risk and it’s them I am risking.

My dad says I shouldn’t break my marriage vows. Both my parents think I should wait until my youngest is 21 and out of university or 18 if they don’t go to university. That’s another 12 years, minimum. Both parents dislike my DH intensely though.

Well there you go. You got that attitude from your parents. How do you feel about passing that on to your kids as well? They are already learning just by example that dads word goes he does nothing around the house and mums put up with it and sacrifice. You happy for your son to treat a future DIL that? Are any of your DC girls? You happy for a daughter to learn this model of a relationship and end up in one herself?

You’re not doing yourself any favours here by acting like the only risk is in leaving. You’re risking their ability to develop future happy relationships now. As well as sacrificing your life, for what? Do you think they’ll thank you when they are grown up for it? Or just accept it as what women and mothers do?

OP,
He sounds awful.
You sound utterly miserable.
Your marriage is undoubtedly dead.

You need to see a lawyer and you need to NOT allow yourself to be bullied into accepting a shit settlement for your children and yourself.

YOU have a responsibility to not allow yourself to be shafted.

He sounds horrible.
Start helping yourself by accumulating financial paperwork.

18 years is a long time.

Get a shit hot lawyer and get out.

If you are unhappy, please consider leaving. You are your own valuable person who is entitled to love and happiness. Staying in a relationship for the kids is a very out dated notion and makes no one happy. Yes divorce can be turbulent for kids but it is a much better result than them having to watch you both unhappy and feel guilty for this. Children notice when a marriage is unhappy.

Depends if it’s relationships that make you happy. I find happiness in other ways that are nothing to do with a relationship.

I’ve got to say that as a child of divorced parents, I wasn’t overly thrilled at leaving the home to then have to swap houses every other weekend when I wanted to be with my mates. It was pretty shit to be honest, especially watching my mum making mess after mess of every subsequent relationship ship. It’s not without risk leaving and it’s not always a better life ahead. You only have to read the dating thread on Relationships to see how difficult it can be starting again. It’s all in favour of men now who let’s face it are just filling their boots on the dating sweet shop!

I can only give my experience because I think this is not something anyone can comment on as a generalisation. Some people are happy that their parents divorced and adjusted well and some didn't.

My experience was that I tore myself into pieces debating whether to leave or not and battering myself for considering splitting the family. All the while seeing it the same as you. It wasn't awful. There were no screaming rows.

Ultimately when we split I realised I was deluding myself. The atmosphere had been toxic even when I couldn't see it. The dc had picked up on the lack of affection. The surface conversations and the difference in them now I beyond belief. Much time has passed. Of course it wasn't easy at first but 5 years on I am so glad we made that decision.

Exdh is happier and has a far better relationship with DC. The DC are happier , having fun. That world of the daily dirge and grind that was grey and just ok. Has given way to light and fun. It's hard to explain without seeing it but it turned out just OK was more damaging for them.

They didn't see a happy supportive relationship to model future relationships on , they didn't see love and partnership. They just saw co existing , they saw going through the motions and I am so relieved they see it differently now.

For me it would have been selfish to stay out if a misbegotten belief that it was what I was expected to do but in all honestly no-one knows what is the right thing for you to do because it is different for everyone.

How would you feel if your dc were married and felt like you? Wouldn't you say that you would do your best to support the GC and your child post split?
It's possible to be a crappy spouse but good parent

Sorry OP, reading back I don't think most of what I wrote is particularly helpful, or relevant to the situation you describe. In essence, your happiness matters too, kids will adapt. Fair enough if you want to try and rekindle your relationship, but don't martyr yourself as they'll be fine if you leave.

No. That's called martyrdom, and it's shit.

That's such a miserable opinion. Why do some people think that having kids means you're suddenly not a person anymore. Not deserving of happiness or dreams or love or anything anymore. OP do you have no sense of identity??

I think you’re asking the wrong question OP.

You’re getting a thread full of people projecting from their life circumstances and choices. It’s an interesting debate but I think you should start a new thread because you need a space to look at your particular relationship.

MN is a fantastic support community for victims of abuse. And I’ve often seen threads where posters have helped the OP to peel back the layers of their situation to recognise the abuse they couldn’t identify by themselves.

I think you’ve framed your situation with this question in a way that closes down your options when there is much more scope and choice than just stay for the dc/pursue your own happiness. If counselling is an option for you, I highly recommend that you pursue it, either on your own or with your dh. Ultimately marriage decisions need more nuance than you can get on a SM forum, though it’s a great place to start unpicking the problems.

Your poor kids growing up learning to model their future relationships on your unhappy one. Why would you think staying in this marriage was good for them?!

@Rollingsunset as posters have said

it is possible to find happiness in other ways that are nothing to do with a relationship. ( excellent point @Tombstone81)

please try and sort your depression out /have counselling ,it might be possible to stay in your relationship or wait before separating/divorcing if you could find other ways to support your emotional health and esteem .

My dc would say he shouts a lot at them, but he doesn’t. Probably not even once a week. It’s just it’s a bit scary when he does, however most parents shout and kids never like it.

I think if you're thinking that's not a lot you're probably inured to the situation. Sure people raise their voices and may be very stern, but shouting in a way that's scaring children is rather different. I'd also question what they are learning. I remember my father shouting and hitting but I don't remember what behaviour of mine precipitated this, I just remember the violence. I don't think it was triggered by anything I did and it wasn't to stop me doing anything in particular. He did it because he was angry and lost his temper and it taught me to be very wary of men.

You're teaching your children to tolerate miserable situations. I'm in a relationship with someone who has split from the mother of his child. I think all of us are happier than we would have been had he stayed with her (I was in no way the cause of the split, it was long before we met). My OH and his ex are happier apart than they ever were together. I'm happy with him and his child is happier even though her parents are split, because if they were still together she'd be tolerating a terrible atmosphere.

Jesus that sounds soul destroying OP.

I don't understand what this obsession is with having a 2 parent family unit, thinking something is lacking without it and it's the only way to be happy.

Me and DC are a lot happier since I ended the relationship 10 years ago and I'm also a better mum as a result of that.