AIBU to ask if the Irish have to apply to stay in the UK post Brexit?

[Weetabixelly]

My in laws say that they have received a card through the post stating that the Irish have to apply to remain in the UK post Brexit. They are a bit vague on exactly who has sent this card.

They came from Southern Ireland to live in the UK in the early 1960s and have lived here ever since.

Looking online, it looks like the Irish don't have to apply for settled status?

@EmeraldShamrock

why do so many people refer to "the North of Ireland"? Should we ask them to stop doing so? If they're referring to Donegal they'd be correct. There is Republic counties in the North of Ireland 6 of 9 counties are under UK rule. The other 3 are Republic. Some older generation in the Republic refuse to recognise it as NI and will use the north of Ireland.

Well I clearly don't mean if referring to Donegal, as I am referring to its use as an alternative to Northern Ireland, a term which does not include Donegal! It's not just an older generation who use NofI to denote their objection to NI. In fact this whole thread is reminding me of why I left, so I can lead a life without all the shit (apologies to all the inhabitants of the island of Ireland just going about their daily business, I am not referring to you)

@5566rfghh

I'm not saying you're lying but in what context have you heard this? My experience is entirely different, I'm from the West, live in the East and have never ever heard somebody from Ireland say Southern Ireland when they mean the Republic.

I agree. Never ever heard anyone use it.

In fact this whole thread is reminding me of why I left, so I can lead a life without all the shit (apologies to all the inhabitants of the island of Ireland just going about their daily business, I am not referring to you)

Yeah how bizarre that people expect you to know the name of the country or swith to the correct name when corrected! I couldn't give a fiddlers about any of the politics but surely it's not too much to ask for that people know the name of the country and if they don't when corrected they apologize not double down on the idiocy?
It doesn't particularly bother me but I don't understand why people wear this idiocy with pride?

I have to agree with the posters saying they've never heard an Irish person say Southern Ireland and mean ROI. Well, unless you count my partner's very republican granddad But that was a political thing with him. Otherwise living in the east, I've never heard it said.

The friend I've heard use it, used it to clarify what part of (the island of) Ireland that she's from. I don't think I've heard her use it other than for that reason. She would usually just say Ireland.

I don't know if it makes a difference, but she's nearly 70.

@Crocodilesoup "Well I clearly don't mean if referring to Donegal, as I am referring to its use as an alternative to Northern Ireland, a term which does not include Donegal!"

If someone is going to Derry and say they're going to the North of Ireland, they're correct... Northern Ireland is in the North of Ireland.

And it wasn't clear at all.

@SticksAndStoned

The friend I've heard use it, used it to clarify what part of (the island of) Ireland that she's from. I don't think I've heard her use it other than for that reason. She would usually just say Ireland.

I don't know if it makes a difference, but she's nearly 70.

So only one person then... That's called an exception, not a rule. And where is she from? Is in in the South? And as you said she still usually says Ireland, only using Southern when clarifying, I presume to people, from abroad, who wrongly think Northern or Southern...

This is always one that causes more discussion on MN than I'd expect.

I'm from Dublin and live in NI, I've never heard an Irish person describe the country as Southern Ireland, but The South is common and I suspect it's easy to conflate the two to English ears. Similar to Eire, I don't find it offensive but it's just not something Irish people say.

North of Ireland really annoys me because it comes with a Tone. Like the friend who complained on FB about the trains in NI, and then was besieged by comments from her extended family that she didn't live in Northern Ireland, she lived in the North of Ireland. They weren't, shall we say, the most cross community minded folk!

So only one person then... That's called an exception, not a rule. And where is she from? Is in in the South? And as you said she still usually says Ireland, only using Southern when clarifying, I presume to people, from abroad, who wrongly think Northern or Southern...

Yes only one person. The same only one person I already mentioned. I'm not sure why you think that I was referring to more. I only have one close friend from south of the Irish border. She's from a place called Balbriggan, which is I think not far from Dublin.

I can't comment on what the other people would call Ireland, I don't think she asked. For example I fairly recently introduced her to a friend who's daughter used to work at a laboratory in Belfast. My non-Irish friend asked if she was from Belfast, saying she'd been there. My Irish friend said something like 'no, I'm from Southern Ireland'.

I found when I lived in the UK that when someone from England said "Southern Ireland", I made sure to refer to England as Southern Scotland. They soon stopped when they copped on to my point that Southern Ireland does not exist.

@5566rfghh

I'm not saying you're lying but in what context have you heard this? My experience is entirely different, I'm from the West, live in the East and have never ever heard somebody from Ireland say Southern Ireland when they mean the Republic.

I think I gave as much as I can of the context - casual conversations, family and friends, making the distinction between NI and ROI as others on the thread have done. So like, you can get that chocolate in the North but I don't think we have it in the South. Or, do you mean all of Ireland or just Southern Ireland? Wouldn't be putting it on forms or envelopes or exam papers.

It's not a big deal to me - interested to hear other perspectives but don't want to keep prolonging the thread with "well, I say it and so do people I know". I don't find it offensive, obviously but I can understand the argument that it was used as a sort of denial of nation / statehood in the past. And it makes no sense for Donegal!
I'll listen out for it with interest in future conversations but no more to add now really. There's more people than me on this thread who've said they've used it. South more often than Southern Ireland, on reflection.

Eire used in English does make me twitchy, and Ulster meaning the six counties. So I have my reactions too. But I wouldn't be offended - people have heard the terms over the years and repeat them.

@SticksAndStoned
Apologies I though you were the poster who mentioned that she knew loads of people in Ireland who called it Southern Ireland.

Fair enough, however that is only one person, on one occasion, and it is rarely, if ever, used by the vast majority of Irish people.

Possibly fairly rare - but it's stood unchallenged afaik in this Independent article, for example
www.independent.ie/business/brexit/brexit-qa-from-smuggling-to-taxes-what-does-it-all-mean-37912130.html

Absolutely accept that various posters haven't heard it, but it is out there

Or from a Northern perspective

www.independent.ie/business/irish/derry-ceo-told-she-cant-compete-for-irish-awards-37723866.html

People reach for it as a casual parallel to NI or the North - it happens

@belleager
Yes I think saying the South etc is fine, (even in Donegal I'm pretty sure people say I'm going to the North as opposed to NI, and I think people in NI would say they're going to the South / down South) and it is used, it's only really Southern Ireland that people have an issue with.

And no, I also wouldn't be offended if the person was simply ignorant of the facts. It's only when people insist it's correct and refuse to be corrected or when it's used on purpose that it becomes irritating or offensive. Just like Eire is incorrect, it's also incorrect. Of course people use it sometimes for quickness as it's a lot easier to say, no I'm from Southern not Northern Ireland, but these people do tend to be from further South and it's not as stupid and annoying as if asked of someone from say Donegal :).

[quote 5566rfghh]@belleager
Yes I think saying the South etc is fine, (even in Donegal I'm pretty sure people say I'm going to the North as opposed to NI, and I think people in NI would say they're going to the South / down South) and it is used, it's only really Southern Ireland that people have an issue with.

And no, I also wouldn't be offended if the person was simply ignorant of the facts. It's only when people insist it's correct and refuse to be corrected or when it's used on purpose that it becomes irritating or offensive. Just like Eire is incorrect, it's also incorrect. Of course people use it sometimes for quickness as it's a lot easier to say, no I'm from Southern not Northern Ireland, but these people do tend to be from further South and it's not as stupid and annoying as if asked of someone from say Donegal :).[/quote]
Yes that's fair enough, and I am a bit surprised at the Independent tbh. They should know better (than me)

But I suppose anyone charged with updating the nation of the latest Brexit dispensations would be excused a few moments of madness ...

I find the South (unless on a signpost that also has the West etc on it) and Southern Ireland really offensive, even in casual conversation. It is just so wrong.

@belleager
Well personally I wouldn't be fussed about those articles, somehow it doesn't seem as bad when directly comparing Northern and Southern as opposed to stating something about the country of Southern Ireland. Which is perhaps not right 😆. I wouldn't use it but there's nothing wrong with mistakes!

What the OP said was fine, as when corrected she did say ok, I didn't realise. It was what some of the other posters said that annoyed me :).

@Elverybaby
I think the South is ok so long as the person is actually in / from NI. An English person saying the South though possibly isn't great.

There is Republic counties in the North of Ireland 6 of 9 counties are under UK rule.

If you're irritated about legal or political accuracy, or one community insensitively offending another then this is not the right way to express yourself!

@5566rfghh not really. If you are going to Donegal, is it still the South?

If you are going to Donegal, is it still the South? No the South is at the bottom of the Republic of Ireland, Donegal is at the top North of Ireland within the Republic.

Or, Donegal is just west of Northern Ireland
Never, ever ask a person in any part of Ireland for directions. Too much of a minefield.

I have gone down a rabbit-hole and read up on naming possibilities for Northern Ireland - serious consideration given to renaming it Ulster in 1949, apparently, but they weren't sure they'd get the King's new title past the Commonwealth.

And one MP helpfully remarked "Ulster has as much right to be called the "Kingdom of Ireland" as Southern Ireland has to be called the "Republic of Ireland." ...

Same article refers to an alleged Donegal joke that when you go out on Lough Doyle, North is South and South is North

Lough Foyle, even