Page 7 | to be devastated by BIL’s secret baby?

Librariesmakeshhhhappen · 23/06/2021 08:01

@Stonelovelace

How horrid. I couldn’t get past my DH being complicit in such disgusting behaviour.

Why is her husband getting dragged into it? He has the same level of control as the OP. He has the same choice as the OP over cutting them out their lives. They've just found out. Give them a minute to make a decision.

Rachie1973 · 23/06/2021 08:01

@toastlover100

Last week DH and I were finally let in on the family secret. His brother’s ex parter has recently given birth to his child.

Supposedly she had tricked BIL into not using contraception. The in-laws story is that BIL was tricked into getting her pregnant and that he is an unwilling sperm donor.

Whilst BIL has fessed up that this baby is his, he gone NC with the ex and not met his child owing to feeling tricked and cheated. He is refusing DNA tests, child support etc. PIL don’t view the baby as their grandchild.

DH and I were only let in on this accidentally, have been sworn to secrecy , and are denied ever meeting our nephew. It feels like I am somehow grieving for this relationship that never will be.

AIBU to feel completely at a loss with how to move forward?

well he might get a shock if she decides to claim child support. He will be assumed to be the father unless he proves otherwise.

PiuVinoPerFavore · 23/06/2021 08:03

This is incredible, this thread. If someone came on here telling the story of a woman who was now pregnant against her will because a man had told her he'd had a vasectomy and he lied, Mumsnet would support the woman to make whatever choices she needed to. And rightfully so. But when PP comes on saying her BIL is now a father against his will because he was tricked, he's a liar, a bastard, vile... the double standards are unbelievable. No one would ever call the woman names for not wanting to keep the child. People saying that when a man has sex that is him committing to having a child. How not the same for a woman then? A woman, rightfully has choices. But the man, no choices at all and all the names under the sun because his SIL is "devastated". I am assuming that the BIL is not lying because I would assume the same if a woman said she was tricked. You are all assuming he is lying because he is a man. Your poor sons.

Yes, to the PP that asked, I am the mother of a son. And a daughter. And I don't believe my son is automatically lying about stuff just because he's male. Just like a trust my daughter.

vivainsomnia · 23/06/2021 08:07

he’s being vilified because th child now exists and he’s having nothing to do with them
So it's ok to end abortion by choice and force women to look after the kids because the kid is born anyway?

I don't think many women here can fully appreciate what it's like to really really really not want a child. That's why abortion rights are a blessing. These women would be shit mums at best, abusive at worse.

Yet somehow, men are expected to turn around and go from hating having a child to becoming a loving supportive dad, to a child of woman whose betrayed them the most.

Few such dads will make good dads, just like no women forced to become a mum would be likely to turn mum of the year.

If you decide to go ahead with a child knowing the other wants nothing to do with it, you do so with the acceptance that what's best for the child is to be without that person in their life.

lightlypoached · 23/06/2021 08:09

Hey listen, you're a grown up. If you want to have a relationship with ex SIL and your nephew (and they want to) there is nothing stopping you.

Pick up the phone, drop round. Take a new baby pressie. And sod the rest of the family if they give you grief for it.

I had a similar-ish situation where part of the family were distancing themselves from another after a messy divorce. We took the view that it's not the child's fault and did what we could to be good relatives. I'm glad we did and, interestingly, some of the rest of the family have now thawed and are engaging too.

Do what you think is right.

vivainsomnia · 23/06/2021 08:11

@PiuVinoPerFavore, posters are to self-centered to even start to appreciate what it could be lack to find yourself in that situation.

I bet all posters gave birth very much wanting their babies. They have no clue and don't want to consider what it would be like to see that baby come to life, knowing they now have to care for them for the crest of their life, stuck for 18 years with a man you despise due to their betrayal, when what you wish more than anything was that this baby was ever conceived.

HowToBringABlushToTheSnow · 23/06/2021 08:11

@Iwonder08

It has literally nothing to do with you. I don't understand how you can possibly 'grieve the relationship' with a child who is not even your relative. Any man who dumps his child is a bastard, but it is none of your business.

Err, this, obviously

Womendohavevaginasnick · 23/06/2021 08:13

I'd reach out to the mother. For all you know she could be totally alone with no support.

vivainsomnia · 23/06/2021 08:13

Personally, I find it odd that OP would so desperately want a relationship with a baby not even a blood relation of her and support a deceptive woman who acted in the most selfish way.

I would want nothing at all to do with such individual. That is of course assuming he hasn't lied about the deceit.

vivainsomnia · 23/06/2021 08:15

Maybe it is quite common then for women to deceive men like this, that somehow it's accepted as a fait accompli and nothing to feel shameful about.

notanothertakeaway · 23/06/2021 08:17

I'm surprised how many people are saying this child is irrelevant to the OP. It's a niece / nephew, blood relative of her DH, and cousin to OP's children (if any)

DH's family have no right to dictate who you have a relationship with. I suggest you and DH tell his family that you plan to contact the mother and you will see where that leads you, but you acknowledge the family don't want to know, so you won't discuss it again

That way, you're not sneaking around behind anyone's back, and you don't need to discuss it with them ever again

Should BIL step up? Yes of course, but you can't force that, and you have to accept that

LIZS · 23/06/2021 08:18

It seems you are focussing on the baby, who has existed without you knowing but suddenly somehow entitled to have a relationship with. Surely this is more about seeing ils in a less favourable light. Your view of them has irrevocably changed.

How well did you really know bils ex? Contact lapsed and you knew nothing about the baby. Pils cannot stop you making contact but doing so will probably cause a rift.

katedan · 23/06/2021 08:19

YANBU, I am surprised so many people are saying it is not your business. The babys mum could be on MN and be a poster who talks about struggling to pay rent or buy food as baby's dad is refusing to help and posters would be up in arms for her. OP you should make contact with her to offer emotional support and get to know your nephew, the poor baby. I do not believe the tricked into conception story, he had sex he now has a baby he should man up.

TulipsTwoLips · 23/06/2021 08:31

Give yourself time OP, and try to detach a little. It sounds like you are grieving the idea of people not being like you thought they were, but I'm afraid that is often part of living in a society.

Mumoblue · 23/06/2021 08:31

I’d be upset too, and it shows that your in laws are pretty terrible people. Poor baby caught in the middle of adults acting like children.

MarshmallowSwede · 23/06/2021 08:32

I find your views abhorrent. If you have sex then there’s a risk of getting pregnant. I’d you are not willing to assume that risk then don’t have sex.

This is a very common argument of MRAs and it punishes no one but the child. The child did not ask to be born, but they do deserve to be looked after and taken responsibility for by both parents.

If a man doesn’t want and child, the only way 100% to guarantee this is to abstain. D-k in pants works 100% of the time. Why don’t more men use it?

PiersPlowman · 23/06/2021 08:34

@MarshmallowSwede

I find your views abhorrent. If you have sex then there’s a risk of getting pregnant. I’d you are not willing to assume that risk then don’t have sex.

This is a very common argument of MRAs and it punishes no one but the child. The child did not ask to be born, but they do deserve to be looked after and taken responsibility for by both parents.

If a man doesn’t want and child, the only way 100% to guarantee this is to abstain. D-k in pants works 100% of the time. Why don’t more men use it?

Are you suggesting the BIL’s ex was raped? Because here I was thinking that she consented to sex with him.

Two to tango, MMS.

SirVixofVixHall · 23/06/2021 08:36

OP do you have children ? This new baby is their cousin if so, surely you can’t be expected to not allow any children of yours a relationship with their cousin ?
In your place , DH and I would contact the ex and send something for the baby.
All adults having sex know that it can result in a pregnancy, and whether your bil was “tricked” or not, there is a now a new baby, who is innocent in all this, and should be loved and welcomed into a family.

WeAllHaveWings · 23/06/2021 08:38

Your BIL's attitude is contemptible, your PIL are probably taking his lead.

You are being over dramatic being "devastated" and "grieving" the "loss" of a relationship with a child you have never met or are even directly related to, possibly due to wanting to be part of a bigger family, but it isn't about you is it?

The baby is safe and loved with its mum and its family, its mother has just given birth and has enough to deal with an reluctant father without adding in extra issues of someone who is barely a relative trying to play happy families to meet their own needs.

Step back, let the dust settle and keep out of it. BIL might start rethinking his position now the baby is here and real. You getting involved could cause him to back off further.

Nothing wrong with disagreeing with BIL/PIL, but other than that it it is your choice if it impacts your relationship with them.

TulipsTwoLips · 23/06/2021 08:43

@WeAllHaveWings

Your BIL's attitude is contemptible, your PIL are probably taking his lead.

You are being over dramatic being "devastated" and "grieving" the "loss" of a relationship with a child you have never met or are even directly related to, possibly due to wanting to be part of a bigger family, but it isn't about you is it?

The baby is safe and loved with its mum and its family, its mother has just given birth and has enough to deal with an reluctant father without adding in extra issues of someone who is barely a relative trying to play happy families to meet their own needs.

Step back, let the dust settle and keep out of it. BIL might start rethinking his position now the baby is here and real. You getting involved could cause him to back off further.

Nothing wrong with disagreeing with BIL/PIL, but other than that it it is your choice if it impacts your relationship with them.

"The baby is safe and loved with its mum and its family, its mother has just given birth and has enough to deal with an reluctant father without adding in extra issues of someone who is barely a relative trying to play happy families to meet their own needs."

This

Naunet · 23/06/2021 08:43

@PiuVinoPerFavore

This is incredible, this thread. If someone came on here telling the story of a woman who was now pregnant against her will because a man had told her he'd had a vasectomy and he lied, Mumsnet would support the woman to make whatever choices she needed to. And rightfully so. But when PP comes on saying her BIL is now a father against his will because he was tricked, he's a liar, a bastard, vile... the double standards are unbelievable. No one would ever call the woman names for not wanting to keep the child. People saying that when a man has sex that is him committing to having a child. How not the same for a woman then? A woman, rightfully has choices. But the man, no choices at all and all the names under the sun because his SIL is "devastated". I am assuming that the BIL is not lying because I would assume the same if a woman said she was tricked. You are all assuming he is lying because he is a man. Your poor sons.

Yes, to the PP that asked, I am the mother of a son. And a daughter. And I don't believe my son is automatically lying about stuff just because he's male. Just like a trust my daughter.

Yawn. Same old poor men crap. If men don’t want a baby, it’s very, very easy. They don’t let their sperm enter a woman’s vagina. To compare that to the rape and forced impregnantion is revoltingly misogynistic. Yes, women get to have abortions, god forbid women have any biological advantage ever right? How unfair on the poor, poor men.

BiBabbles · 23/06/2021 08:50

I bet all posters gave birth very much wanting their babies. They have no clue and don't want to consider what it would be like to see that baby come to life, knowing they now have to care for them for the crest of their life, stuck for 18 years with a man you despise due to their betrayal, when what you wish more than anything was that this baby was ever conceived.

Yes, my children are wanted -- I however was not. I saw what that life was like for myself through my mother so yes I've thought a lot about what it's like to be in that position and spent time fearing that for myself as it's the norm there that if you pregnant, you get married off like that solves anything. I also had a friend die from complications of an unwanted pregnancy at 15 in a community where abortion wasn't acceptable or easily available - especially to a teenager - and adoption isn't supported (and for my mother, as a married woman, she couldn't adopt out without my father's permission anyway, so no, it's not always an option). That is life, and death, for many women.

There is no need to go down the 'this never happens to women' line to point out it's wrong to lie to a man about contraception. This does happen to women, with the added significantly higher health risks of pregnancy and childbirth & far more likely to be doing most of the childcare on top.

Biology isn't equally harsh when it comes to children, neither is society. We can't make a 'fair' balance between the two sexes by treating them both the same and ignoring that. Can the systems be improved, absolutely, how is up for debate, but we don't make it fair by ignoring the higher risks to women.

In this case, the OP can only decide with her husband how to handle the result. Whether the mother is a monster or the father is or they both are or neither, the OP and her husband can decide whether or not to reach out to the mother to try to build a relationship. Whether the mother will reciprocate is up in the air, but it isn't unreasonable to want to try that no matter how they feel about what their BIL and the PIL said even if whether they should try at this time is I think more uncertain. I wouldn't go with keeping the secret, but whether to contact would depend on the relationship before she was an ex to me.

C8H10N4O2 · 23/06/2021 08:51

I don’t buy the whole she tricked him stuff. It is purely on his say so and he is clearly not a good person. My ex has told all kinds of lies to his family but the truth is we planned the baby he now doesn’t see.

If I had a quid for every time I've heard of a man claiming "she tricked me" when in fact he had just left all responsibility for contraception to the woman I'd be cruising around my tropical island now.

Every time this comes up menz rights brigade whine its double standards and assume the woman has lied. Well its really simple. If BiL Big Bollocks didn't want a child he should have managed his own contraception instead of leaving it all the the woman. Contraception fails sometimes so if being child free is that important you double up or accept the risk.

The impacts of fertility management, contraception impact, pregnancy and the related decisions fall almost entirely on women so whining about "double standards" frankly cuts no ice. It will only be double standards when men face the same issues.

Incidentally any poster here musing on planning an accidental pregnancy will typically get >90% responses to say its the wrong thing to consider, let alone do.

OP: pay close attention to the iL's alacrity to abandon their own grandchild in support of their sons awful behaviour. This is how they will treat you if anything goes wrong in the future.

LemonTT · 23/06/2021 08:58

@Shelby2010

I guess the OP is going to find a relationship with PIL difficult because she can imagine them cutting her & her (potential) children off if she split from DH. Also, it doesn’t matter how the baby arrived, they are still the grandparents, and shouldn’t be punishing a child for it’s mother’s actions (assuming they believe BIL account).

OP, did you know the ex before they split up? Is there any way of getting contact details without going through BIL? If I was you I would quietly reach out to her. You might want to be a little cautious about getting in too deep to a relationship though, in the remote chance BIL is right & she is some kind of psycho.

That’s understandable. But she has said her relationship with them is important. The next course of action would be to have an open and honest discussion with them about their reaction and behaviour and what it means to others in the family.

There could be more or less to the story. The PILs might be driven by misguided loyalties as you suggest. Explaining an alternative perspective might open their eyes and provide a child with grandparents.

It will also make you and your husband feel better to speak your truth as it where. And to say that you will acknowledge the child even if others in the family don’t.

It’s fair to say that the family (including grandchild) doesn’t need any more lies, finger pointing blame and accusations.

dottiedodah · 23/06/2021 09:05

I dont agree with his behaviour at all.However it is not really anything to do with you .I dont see how on earth it would impact on your previously good RL with In laws either .Presumably he will still have to pay maintenance to the child anyway .If they had been in a long term RL together and then split up ,how much of this child would you then see? I think you are over involved .What about your own DH? Surely this is more to do with him?