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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is DH controlling or am I permissive?

227 replies

ReluctantNeatFreak · 20/06/2021 19:15

Sorry for long post (I'm a long-time lurker also) but I'm at my wit's end - my DH and I are on the brink of separation over our difference in parenting styles. It feels like there is lots worth saving in the marriage and I don't think any of us (me, DH, DD14, DD13) would be happy with separation, but I can't take any more days like this.

Our teenage girls do have a tendency to have messy bedrooms, leave their stuff around the house, don't eat enough fruit/veg, often prioritise seeing their mates in spare time rather than choosing to get homework/chores done first, bicker with each other, sometimes act resentfully towards parents and need to be asked several times before they get stuff done.

However, they get good grades and reports from school, have been chosen as patrol leaders in scouts, do chores like cleaning bathrooms, doing laundry, dishwashers and mowing lawns before they get any pocket money, and are usually articulate, funny, positive-minded, passionate, thoughtful of others, and (I think) generally good kids.

I feel like the negative stuff above is typical teenage stuff, and I have a 'coaching' style where I try to get them to behave better through regular prompting and encouragement, praising good behaviour and verbal admonishment when they have really let themselves down, etc. I very rarely raise my voice or give out punishments (reserved for lies and deceit, utterly unkind behaviour etc).

My DH believes that behaviours like the messy room or not eating healthily should result in sanctions (sometimes arbitrary or instant) like losing their phone for a day, banned from TV, being grounded for a day, having monitoring and checklists put in place and often shouts when he sees things that are below par or if his instructions aren't explicitly followed. If the girls (or I) protest and an argument ensues, it almost always ends up in him locking himself in his room and refusing to speak to the three of us for hours.

He thinks I undermine him and never hold the children to account. I think he's trying to exert control over teenagers in a way which makes them want to rebel more. We have a day of rows or not speaking at least once a fortnight, and this has gone on for years. The children are stressed, miserable and confused on these days.

DH is a very well-intentioned and loving Dad, but this situation is now degenerating so that they hardly ever have cuddles or chats now without him sniping or being critical and the girls retreating moodily. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells amongst them.

I honestly can no longer tell if I'm right (and he is overly strict) or if he's right (and the children would grow up with terrible life-damaging habits if he didn't teach them these lessons) and need outside opinions please.

Please let me know - YABU (DH is being a great parent and I am too permissive), YANBU (DH is being overly controlling and needs to enjoy his teenagers company more before they leave home).

OP posts:
ReluctantNeatFreak · 22/06/2021 08:29

The problem is that they are also bamboozled by the Jekyll and Hyde - they still love the kind, gentle, wise Mr Fix-It version of him (he was up half the night with the youngest who had stomach pains last night - I didn't even know as I was asleep in spare room). But they don't like all the constraints, regularly protest that they have the strictest parents in the school and are very upset when he 'turns'. I think the eldest has had enough but the youngest will find the split very hard. I have allowed him to look like the solver of all practical problems (as he admittedly could always do a better job than me on that front) so, to begin with, living with just me might feel a bit 'unmoored'. He just always 'knows what to do' when I am dithering. I absolutely now recognise that this is partly a consequence of his domineering nature but is not that easily healed.

OP posts:
ReluctantNeatFreak · 22/06/2021 08:33

I don't want to punish him by leaving him with no family. He has nothing else in his life really - no hobbies or friends, just work and family. It's difficult to convey here, but he's not a pantomime baddy - he's a damaged person with lots of good attributes and good intentions, but very poor execution of those intentions. I just want the girls to have two nice households, ideally.

OP posts:
ReluctantNeatFreak · 22/06/2021 08:34

Thanks for all the reassuring comments about my own style of parenting. This thread is what's allowing me to hold my nerve this time.

OP posts:
Bumpsadaisie · 22/06/2021 08:51

Your girls do sound like they are doing fine. Scouts, lawn mowing, car washing, decent grades at school!

Your DH doesn't sound like a baddy to me but like someone missing a piece of a jigsaw. Not a surprise he didn't have a father. Doesn't make him any easier to live with though.

I don't think there is any harm in parents having slightly different approaches - after all we are separate people - as long as each parent shows the children that they respect the other parents' approach.

I probably do more for my kids than my DH thinks should be done. Eg come home from school canoeing trip with bag full of wet dirty kit - child leaves it in bedroom for days. DH would say well its his kit, he needs to do something with it or ask for help with that. I say, the boy is 9 - he needs prompting and help.

Another example - on one occasion DD (12) doesn't do her homework till 10pm on a Sunday night. DH says well she should go to bed and explain to the teacher tomorrow, its her responsibility to do her homework or deal with the consequences. I would say its our job as parents to support her - she is 12 not 16 - so that it IS done and not to leave it entirely to her, and that really we have been remiss in not checking.

Our kids know that Dad expects more and Mum helps more. If they are going on a cycling trip with Dad he will expect them to get their own stuff ready. Mum will fuss about like an old hen and probably get most of it ready for them.

[I think I need to work on this Grin ]

But we don't fall out about it and it doesn't cause any kind of "atmosphere".

justasking111 · 22/06/2021 08:53

He'll be the parent who rages that the kids never visit in years to come which means you will lose out

Bumpsadaisie · 22/06/2021 08:59

@ReluctantNeatFreak

I don't want to punish him by leaving him with no family. He has nothing else in his life really - no hobbies or friends, just work and family. It's difficult to convey here, but he's not a pantomime baddy - he's a damaged person with lots of good attributes and good intentions, but very poor execution of those intentions. I just want the girls to have two nice households, ideally.
I think there can often be a connection with very rigid and controlling approaches to relationships and lack of a father figure. Of course it doesn't have to be a man, or a father, but someone who "triangulates" a child's very intense relationship with their mother. There being a different person, outside of the mother-child relationship - helps the growing mind learn that there are outside perspectives and other ways of looking at things/relating.

My own father grew up without a father in years that were key to his development, although he is a kind, supportive and gentle man, he is very rigid in his thinking and he just cannot see things from other viewpoints, take different approaches. He couldn't have a friend who voted the opposite way to him, for example, the difference in view would create too much anxiety.

He is a cautious and rigid person - thankfully mediated by gentleness and kindness - but it really has shut down areas of his life where he could have grown. Struck a chord with me about the limited scope of your DH's life - he is stuck desperately in a developmental stage where control is all.

If your need to control is overwhelming it is hard to really go out into the world with all its unpredictability.

Happinesscomesfromwithin · 22/06/2021 09:02

I agree with your DH.

Happinesscomesfromwithin · 22/06/2021 09:04

You keep undermining him and assume your parenting choices are better. In a marriage if you disagree on parenting - you sit down and find a middle ground. End of.

Quartz2208 · 22/06/2021 09:16

You are not punishing him though - the chance for your girls to have two nice households isnt yours to make. You can only make sure that they have one nice calm household - with effective rules and boundaries.

The rest isnt in your control

RandomMess · 22/06/2021 09:25

Living with a Jekyll and Hyde person leaves them treading on eggshells and feeling insecure. The by product of it is emotionally abusive sadly.

More worryingly they will subconsciously seek out someone that fits that. May not be obvious to them at first but it will be there and it will seem safe and familiar and therefore attractive to them Sad

AnotherEmma · 22/06/2021 09:28

Your comment about him being a "damaged person" reminded me of this Ted talk by an abuse survivor.

"I never once thought of myself as a battered wife. Instead, I was a very strong woman in love with a deeply troubled man, and I was the only person on Earth who could help Conor face his demons."

www.ted.com/talks/leslie_morgan_steiner_why_domestic_violence_victims_don_t_leave/

KeepingTrack · 22/06/2021 09:48

Just a couple of points

If you decide to split up, this will not

  • nit be your fault if he ends up with no family. He has a huge part to 0ay in the situation so this will be his responsibility too, not just and only yours.
  • you will certainly not be punishing him. Behaviours and actions have consequences, natural consequences, even for adults. You don’t have to stay in a relationship that makes you unhappy (because I’m sure that him being Jekyll and Hide + walking on egg shell/having an atmosphere isn’t conductive to happiness). You are entitled to leave, whatever the reason wo it being a ‘punishment’. Rather this will be a consequences of decisions he has taken, decisions he took himself.
  • your dcs are older and at age where they will have a say if where they live. They might well decide to live with you rather than 50/50. See the breakdown of their Relationship with their dad…
billy1966 · 22/06/2021 11:09

The Jekyll & Hyde experience will leave your daughter's with anxiety and anxiousness.

They may be vulnerable to damaged partners, but it's not a total given.

Many people from damaged backgrounds go on to form healthy relationships and raise children in a healthy environment.

If you separate, you are NOT responsible for your husband's relationship with his daughter's.

He is.

It could be the making of him, or he could continue to cling to his belief there is only HIS way and the children will refuse contact completely in a short amount of time.

That will be 100% on HIM alone.

Of course he will have very positive qualities BUT he is making your children very unhappy particularly because of when he "turns" it causes such stress and distress to the house.

You can't change him OP.

All you can do is give your children a safe home where they don't have to deal with this and try and the stress it brings to their life.
Flowers

Fitforforty · 22/06/2021 11:19

@ReluctantNeatFreak

The problem is that they are also bamboozled by the Jekyll and Hyde - they still love the kind, gentle, wise Mr Fix-It version of him (he was up half the night with the youngest who had stomach pains last night - I didn't even know as I was asleep in spare room). But they don't like all the constraints, regularly protest that they have the strictest parents in the school and are very upset when he 'turns'. I think the eldest has had enough but the youngest will find the split very hard. I have allowed him to look like the solver of all practical problems (as he admittedly could always do a better job than me on that front) so, to begin with, living with just me might feel a bit 'unmoored'. He just always 'knows what to do' when I am dithering. I absolutely now recognise that this is partly a consequence of his domineering nature but is not that easily healed.
There are lots of things in your children’s life you do which they don’t like which is for their own good from nappy changes when they are baby, teeth brushing, to put on suncream, making them do homework and learning to do housework to make them independent. This is not the children’s decision to make. Maybe this is decision you need to stop dithering about.
thevassal · 22/06/2021 13:35

@Happinesscomesfromwithin

You keep undermining him and assume your parenting choices are better. In a marriage if you disagree on parenting - you sit down and find a middle ground. End of.
This is stupid. So if one parent thinks you should beat children with a belt for a misdemeanour while the second parent is anti violence the "middle ground" would be to "only" smack them for really serious things?

One parent believes in homeschooling and the other doesn't does the kid just go to school alternate days?

I agree that it is better for parents to provide a united front rather than contradictory positions but that doesn't mean that a "middle ground" is always achievable or appropriate.

Happinesscomesfromwithin · 22/06/2021 18:00

If you can't stand together as a team, know that in the future your children won't respect you and there will be this constant back and forth of dad said this and mum says that.. they will be confused. I think this is something that should be spoken about before having children to ensure you are on the same page and a united team. It creates stability for the children and the family home.

Phineyj · 22/06/2021 18:48

He sounds like someone who isn't really equipped for family life and doesn'tmuch want to learn. Family life is about compromise. Sure, this is from your point of view but I'm not seeing the part where he meets you half way. You seem to be doing all the worrying about it.

The thing the previous poster said about your girls marrying someone similar was spot on. It's pretty much what I did.

The worries about practical tasks - you can pay someone to do handyman stuff you know. You never know - your teens might surprise you, too. You can find out how to do anything on YouTube these days. It could be empowering.

The best case scenario on separation could be they and their dad could have a reasonable relationship once a) he realises he needs to.shape up and b) gets time to be a neat freak in his own place.

MissRabbitsCV · 23/06/2021 21:31

This is my husband and I. This is very difficult to read. You have my sincere sympathy. How is it possible to destroy a family, and a man, who is kind, hardworking and loving, but has no comprehension how destructive is behavior is ?

I’m sorry. I have no suggestions as i’m here with you.

LalalalalalaLand123 · 23/06/2021 21:46

YANBU. He will alienate his daughters with such dictatorial behaviour.

Macncheeseballs · 23/06/2021 21:46

Happiness - yeah - and in the real world, people, parents and marriages are imperfect and there is no way I would try and find a middle ground with a dictatorial bully

Squirmywrigglepants · 23/06/2021 22:17

I feel like you’re describing my teenage life and the relationship I had with my dad. I was a good kid deep down but typical teenage stuff, like exactly what you’ve described above and my dad would lose it. My mum was always caught in the middle and my dad felt like she didn’t back him up (but actually she didn’t agree with the way he would handle things).
I can honestly say at the time I hated my dad - I felt he didn’t care and didn’t really love me, like I was a nuisance and could literally never do anything right... and that probably just made me rebel a little more.
He is ruining his relationship with his daughters - (and you) he needs a wake up call of some kind. But not sure what to suggest.
I wouldn’t have wanted my family to be split apart.
But I do think he needs to properly reflect on why he needs to control so much.

20 years down the line me and my dad get on so much better and we have a great relationship - but I don’t think I’ll ever forget those feelings as a 14 year old.

ReluctantNeatFreak · 23/06/2021 22:42

Thanks all, so useful to hear different perspectives. I think my ultimatum has given him a bit of that wake-up call. We had a long, constructive, calm and respectful conversation last night, trying to understand triggers and then how things escalate. He accepted that his behaviour had to change and explained some underlying feelings that have helped me understand him a bit more. We've planned a new approach towards the children that targets the the things he really sees as red lines for him, whilst letting others go and agreeing reasonable boundaries and punishments and being more predictable with it. He is clear that my red lines include the sulking, nitpicking and unpredictable outbursts. I may well be back to square one in 2 weeks but this conversation definitely seemed to have a different tone, and I'll immediately know what I'm doing if this last chance doesn't work.

OP posts:
billy1966 · 23/06/2021 22:48

@ReluctantNeatFreak

Thanks all, so useful to hear different perspectives. I think my ultimatum has given him a bit of that wake-up call. We had a long, constructive, calm and respectful conversation last night, trying to understand triggers and then how things escalate. He accepted that his behaviour had to change and explained some underlying feelings that have helped me understand him a bit more. We've planned a new approach towards the children that targets the the things he really sees as red lines for him, whilst letting others go and agreeing reasonable boundaries and punishments and being more predictable with it. He is clear that my red lines include the sulking, nitpicking and unpredictable outbursts. I may well be back to square one in 2 weeks but this conversation definitely seemed to have a different tone, and I'll immediately know what I'm doing if this last chance doesn't work.
Fair enough OP.

You have given him your red line and now he knows.

If it is a wake up call great, if it isn't it will be his behaviour that resulted in the marriage ending and he cant say he wasn't warned.
Best of luck to you all.

Summerlovin24 · 23/06/2021 23:21

Waaaay too controlling. Reading the post.made me feel anxious. They sound like good kids. I left my son's room and refused to wash clothes not in basket. He soon learnt and A year before uni he learnt to wash his own clothes. When at school.i washed underwear socks and school shirts and left everything else. Now back from uni his room is tidy and he even tidies kitchen without asking.
Teenagers are annoying and messy. Goes with the territory. Your DH needs to chill the hell.out..enjoy their company and ignore their rooms. Course they will prioritise their friends. Life I for living not doing chores

TheyWentToSeaInASieve · 07/09/2021 12:41

@ReluctantNeatFreak
I could have written every single one of your posts, except for the age of the children involved.

I wanted to know how are things working out since your talk? I am also in the same unhappy, eggshell place. With much too much alcohol and depressive episodes thrown in, in the evenings on DP's part. I am looking to see what can be done to save a previously loving relationship of twenty years. (Counselling will be refused point blank.)

Like you, we jump from happy to unhappy at stratospheric speed. Every holiday ends up in a disaster. We nearly split up after the last one but are holding on by a thread.