To not understand the vaccine drama

[Lei8133]

I am so confused by all this anti-vaxxer hate and mandating the COVID vaccine for certain professions extra. IMO if you have had the vaccine (which I have, well I’m awaiting my 2nd dose) surely people who haven’t had the jab pose no increased threat to us. The only people they cause harm to are fellow anti-vaxxers and other unvaccinated people for whom the risk is always present.

Surely whether we like it or not it is a personal choice whether you receive the vaccine or not and the freedom of choice is something we should all advocate for whether we agree with the decision or not surely?!? I just don’t get it and the divide it is causes amongst friends, family and the greater society is saddening. AIBU?!?! If so can someone explain to me how unvaccinated relatives and friends are potentially harmful to me despite having received the jab?

I think we should be very careful about wishing for a 2 tier society where restrictions are placed on the unvaccinated.

The creep of power we have seen over the last year is bad enough.

I get that it's easy to see the unvaccinated as the selfish enemy and if they would all JUST have the vaccine things will go back to normal, but really I don't think that is going to happen.

Whilst I can appreciate the concerns of those with health conditions who cannot be vaccinated, what of those who have had one or both doses of the vaccine and are now suffering myocarditis and other health issues? I suspect knowing what they know now, they wish they hadn't had it.

Grenlei,
I think looking at the press drip feeds restrictions on the unvaccinated are inevitable, travel passports, end of self isolation, large crowd events, I think they are starting to put together the framework for this.

I don’t think it will be long before large social event venues might promote themselves on the basis of vaccinated attendance only.

I don’t know that people are wishing for it especially those with division in their own families and friendship groups but it feels as if it might become inevitable.

That’s my feeling too and I don’t want the vaccine. My health means I would probably be ok with one.

What about people who have autoimmune issues or who suffered awful side effects or ongoing menstrual issues and need it yearly? I’m so sad the world has come to this. My heartaches for what we have lost and what we must subject people to in order to live normally.

Only those whose health is strong will withstand these annual vaccines. It’s like survival of the fittest re covid but via vaccines. I hate it and I think it’s worse than covid

@CaraherEIL Well I’m only going by my own motivation to have the vaccine and a few of the things that have been said in this thread and by my own family and friends who have been vaccinated.... I suppose I do believe that deep down maybe not all, the majority of humans only do things for their benefit or if their actions will in some way benefit them.... am I wrong???

I end up going round in circles with it all. I understand why people don’t want to get it and that’s their choice. I understand why those who’ve gotten it are mad at non vaxxers because they’re what hangs in the balance in the way of our freedom. Or so we believe. But we cannot force them to do something they don’t want to do so... on it goes. If I’m told that we’re not allowed to do ‘x’ or we’re going on another lockdown because of a new variant as not all adults are vaccinated. I won’t be mad at the unvaccinated I’m mad at the government and everyone who thinks we can ever really control the outcomes... I knew when getting the jab, it may not be effective against new variants and that covid was here to stay... the jab is my protection, so let’s get on with life... wearing a coat first 100% keep you from feeling the cold, but we still go outside!!! Basically everyone should wear a coat and stay indoors because it’s cold outside and we cannot guarantee that by wearing a coat you won’t feel it....?!?!

@BluebellsGreenbells I do have unvaccinated children... they have less risk of having severe covid or dying. As far as I was aware no child will be vaccinated...

Only those whose health is strong will withstand these annual vaccines

Not so. It's true that there are some specific health conditions that may make vaccinations undesirable; but you don't have to be super-healthy to withstand them. The first people to get the jab were frail elderly people in care homes. Most withstood it without difficulty; whereas if Covid gets into a care home, it's often fatal.

Vaccinations are certainly not 'worse than Covid' for the vast majority of people.

Many of us have the flu jab annually, and it hasn't had disastrous consequences.

@CaraherEIL so you don’t think everyone has a right to freedom? Because that’s the danger here isn’t it. In saying unvaccinated people should be allowed to do certain thing or experience the same freedoms is to say that they are somehow less than we are...

As I mentioned earlier the services for unvaxxed business market is defo an investment area about to open up lol. I might open a cafe ‘decaf not devax’

Did you see the deaths increasing in care homes since January?

That was from one. What will cumulative unstable spike proteins do or cumulative nanoparticles? Again we just don’t know.

Health is already deteriorating in the west - allergies and autoimmunity, cancers, neurodegenerative illnesses and infertility, not to mention an explosion of mood disorders in our young. This will just be the icing on the chronic ill health cake

Many of us have the flu jab annually, and it hasn't had disastrous consequences.

same for not having annual flu jab and lack of disastrous consequences #ijs

I don’t think the annual flu jab is comparable to be honest. That you say this shows me how little there is in terms of understanding of what these new vaccines even are

@Duggeehugs82

I have scientist friends who r part of the vaccine making process i would rather belive them on if its safe than some random person making videos on youtube like my brother is doing.

Equally I have a friend who works for a pharmaceutical company involved in the vaccines and she isn’t having it so it works both ways

@Lei8133

Many of us have the flu jab annually, and it hasn't had disastrous consequences.

same for not having annual flu jab and lack of disastrous consequences #ijs

You mean other than the 20,000 who die from it? (and that's with 15 million given the jab)

@Roonerspismed

I don’t think the annual flu jab is comparable to be honest. That you say this shows me how little there is in terms of understanding of what these new vaccines even are

Exactly. They shouldn’t really be called vaccines. Even a lot of hcps agree

@VerticalHorizon am I really supposed to believe 20,000 out of 60,000,000 is disastrous... it’s sad, but it’s not disastrous. The economy keeps ticking.

@Ridingthegravytrain that’s interesting. Have they expressed their reasons why not?

I would love to know their job and if its science based? vaccines work thats a fact. If they didnt we would have a lot of nasty diseases back.

[quote Lei8133]@VerticalHorizon am I really supposed to believe 20,000 out of 60,000,000 is disastrous... it’s sad, but it’s not disastrous. The economy keeps ticking.

@Ridingthegravytrain that’s interesting. Have they expressed their reasons why not?[/quote]
So, would you advocate the abolishment of breast screening?

I'm asking because there are only about 11,000 deaths per year from that, and only 1% detected via screening. So abolishment wouldn't really be disastrous would it?

I'm scared to admit to people in real life that I don't want the vaccine. I've just been saying that I haven't been given an appointment yet. I got the letter through about 3 weeks ago.

I believe everyone has the right to freedom but I do think people may have to live with restriction shorter term to achieve a long term future freedom, then yes I think I believe in that.
If you decide not to have a vaccine then it should come with the understanding that if you do that the government are likely to expect you to observe different protocols to unvaccinated people.
But the end goal is the same for everyone to live normally again.

@VerticalHorizon not saying that... of course I wouldn’t advocate the abolishment of breast screening... but no if that 1% was not detected it wouldn’t be disastrous... for the economy, again it’s sad but no it’s not by definition a disaster the loss was inconsequential (for the country, not at the personal level) my Nan died of breast cancer do you think the whole of the uk felt that ‘disaster’... I’m not being a prick I’m being logical the word disaster, I don’t think, can be applied to a loss of less than 1%

@CaraherEIL I can appreciate that. For the short term.

Can anyone who doesn’t want the vaccine say whether they think short term restrictions on you would be considered unreasonable? Why?

[quote Lei8133]@VerticalHorizon not saying that... of course I wouldn’t advocate the abolishment of breast screening... but no if that 1% was not detected it wouldn’t be disastrous... for the economy, again it’s sad but no it’s not by definition a disaster the loss was inconsequential (for the country, not at the personal level) my Nan died of breast cancer do you think the whole of the uk felt that ‘disaster’... I’m not being a prick I’m being logical the word disaster, I don’t think, can be applied to a loss of less than 1%[/quote]
No, I don't think you're being a prick - it's a sensible conversation to have, and in truth, society simply has to accept that a certain number of people per year will die. Some of whom might have been saved, but there is ultimate a price on everybody's head. What that price is... is ultimately the debate.

That can sound horribly harsh, but it's the reality we already live in today.

same for not having annual flu jab and lack of disastrous consequences #ijs

Can have pretty disastrous consequences in the elderly and already-sick.

And whether or not others choose to have it, I certainly think health workers should get it. As a young child, I got the Hong Kong flu when I was already in hospital for other reasons, almost certainly from a doctor who turned out to have it. Probably they didn't have really reliable vaccines for it in 1968; but certainly it is better for people to have the jabs, if they are going to be in contact with patients.

Health is already deteriorating in the west - allergies and autoimmunity, cancers, neurodegenerative illnesses and infertility, not to mention an explosion of mood disorders in our young. This will just be the icing on the chronic ill health cake

Health is not deteriorating (well this year it is, due to covid). The life expectancy, though plateauing in the last 4 or 5 years, is very much higher than in the past. Indeed, some of the diseases that you mention are rising in incidence (certain cancers, neurodegenerative diseases) precisely because people now live to an age when they are common. If you die of an infectious disease before the age of 5, then you won't reach the age when cancer and dementia become common!

And life expectancy is certainly much higher in the West than in poorer countries. It has improved even in poorer countries, partly because of vaccination programmes. One of the most frightening things about the Covid jab is that many of the world's poorest are not getting access to it.

you don’t think everyone has a right to freedom

What about the freedom to have a healthy life? You don't have freedom when you're dead. You don't have much if you're chronically ill with long Covid or long-term ill-effects of other diseases.

And no one has absolute freedom. You don't have freedom to drive 100 miles an hour in the wrong direction on a one-way street in a residential area. You don't have freedom to drive at all, unless you have a license - which some people can't get or keep due to disabilities beyond their control.

To b a doctor u have to have certain vaccines and need to show proof its not a big deal , its common sense

@VerticalHorizon thanks so easy to be misconstrued on here. I agree with you completely it can sound harsh but it’s 100% true