To think that WFH will divide the rich/poor more

[PipedownSue]

There's no denying that most WFH roles tend to be higher paid in comparison to ones where you have to be in a set work place. Just looking at my friends, waitress, HCA, admin assistant, receptionist, retail roles are all dependent on being in a workplace rather than at home. My role allows some home working (25%) whilst my manager does more like 75% at home because our roles differ.
The problem I see with this is that through the pandemic those who have had to work outside the home have been pushed to the limit. Food retailers like my DP have been working flat out, at one point he said that every week was like December because of how busy they were (with restaurants and pubs shut.) I have been working throughout and have worked 50 hour weeks covering for staff absences, those who are shielding, isolating etc. In the NHS we are constantly playing catch up and now most of my colleagues are working longer hours, working to cover colleagues who have left and haven't been replaced.
This isn't a woe is me post but if you compare lower paid roles where the employee continues to pay for wraparound childcare, public transport or car costs, parking, food in the workplace etc to those where someone is on full pay WFH with the added benefits of more time at home to clean, cook, exercise, family time etc. I just a society made up of depressed, burned out, unhealthy, poor people struggling with stagnant wages and an increase in cost of living and those who are well off, happy, healthy and get to live in a little bubble of privilege. Like it is now, but worse!

Night night @tealightsandd

I’m not advocating for people to be stuck in their bedrooms - nobody should have to work in an environment that negatively impacts their mental or physical health, and I don’t think much of employers who use this as an excuse to close offices and leave people without an option. I’m talking about whether society could or should try and reverse a benefit that some but far from all benefit from in the name of fairness.

I’m afraid I don’t agree that wfh should be reversed because of domestic violence (if that is what you’re saying). You could argue that freelancers working from home should report to a workplace on that basis.

@WorraLiberty

About 30% of the staff at my workplace are unable to work from home due to the nature of their jobs.

Interestingly enough, I had a conversation with someone today who pointed out (amongst other inequalities) that those who can work from home will be able to holiday in 'amber' countries and work through their 10 day isolation period afterwards.

Those who cannot work from home, would have to take 10 extra days annual leave.

I hadn't thought about that at all to be honest.

My employer is insisting that those who wfh take the ten days as holiday so as to have some parity with colleagues who don’t have that option because their roles differ. That seems a fair measure to me.

I’m afraid I don’t agree that wfh should be reversed because of domestic violence (if that is what you’re saying). You could argue that freelancers working from home should report to a workplace on that basis.

You're right we can't do that. I just mentioned it as one of the unthought of consequences of permanent full-time WFH. Just one of the many knock on effects on wider society.

A balance would be good. More flexible working - so if people choose, they can part-time WFH in roles where it's possible without lowering of standards. Perhaps 2/3 days a week.

My employer is insisting that those who wfh take the ten days as holiday so as to have some parity with colleagues who don’t have that option because their roles differ. That seems a fair measure to me.

It sounds fair but is it legal though?

If you can work from home during the quarantine, how can your employer insist that you don't and you use annual leave instead?

I'm not expert but I really don't think they can insist upon that.

I’m not an expert either, and I’d be interested if anyone has the answer! However, I believe employers can set policies around mandating leave, so my guess is that this is what’s going on here.

@maddening

Wfh people are still working and still have to have childcare

Totally agree. You cannot work effectively and supervise young children!

Working at home is also living at work!

Sure pre pandemic this was a flexibility option for more senior roles that needed more private time undisturbed to focus a day on a particular more complex project away from the busy office. Remote working from home was then offered as an option to middle management with the need to accommodate family caring responsibilities ie childcare and school logistics. I believe in the typical professional services office working from home will become a blended norm as it has advantages in a pandemic but disadvantages as technology cannot replicate the office community environment where other wider business leads and personal networking incidentals materialise when least expected thorough general inconsequential interactivity. Pure remote working may mean geographical flexibility for both staff and businesses. Businesses may leverage this to employ people located in areas with lower costs of living possibly to off shore more automated less value added roles to educated employees in poorer nations.

Agree.
On MN threads the majority of posters are introverts and have no desire to return to the office and socialise at all.

But I think 1 or 2 days in the office and seeing colleagues for a tiny bit of social interaction, will become the hybrid ideal for most of the uk workers who can wfh, in RL, rather than, outside of MN.

I agree with you OP, though only one factor. Made worse by the long term housing crisis.

Now I dial from one meeting to the next, and the location is irrelevant. So no downtime between meetings at all. Not even one minutes.

We had this a lot, and people late to a.meeting because they'd had to go to the loo or get a.drink between back to back meetings. We changed the settings in Outlook so the default time on an invite is 25 mins or 50 mins so they end earlier.

@SecondCityShark

those who can work from home will be able to holiday in 'amber' countries and work through their 10 day isolation period afterwards.

There are so many privileges to working from home, there really are. To my mind, those able to work from home are extremely fortunate.

I'd agree with this, for all the downsides, on balance WFH is still a huge privilege.

In particular, people WFH were less likely to get COVID during the lockdowns. That's a big privilege.

Huge benefit of my job is that it will never be WFH. Working in a very busy hospital in a job that means I always on the move. I'm a social person who loves to be out and about interacting with people and experiencing different situations so sitting at home all day on zoom calls would depress the hell out of me.

My husband is an accountant who has been working from home since last February, he absolutely cannot wait to go back to the office in September. I've really felt bad for him for the last year. He's such a people person and talking on the phone all day just isn't the same.

It's so surprising to me that so many like to sit at home while doing their jobs.

I can see both side to this.

Yes lower paid workers are less likely to be able to work from home.

But many people are being forced to work from home in situations that are far less than ideal. The reality is a lot of workers just do not have a good set up to work from home and if they had requested it in pre covid times their request would have been turned down due to health and safety concerns. No proper desk, no proper chair, some still working from either a bed or a couch.

Math saw wfh last year as the thing they had been waiting on to help balance work/home. A friend of mine was really surprised that I was in the office last year - our office never closed. We did have some wfh and still have but the staff not furloughed were predominantly in the office. Roll on to now and when I was talking to her recently she said how lucky I was to be in the office as having both her husband and her working from home was challenging and she was really missing the personal connections with people.

Personally I wouldn't want to wfh, certainly not full time. I don't have space, and would feel I was living at work rather than working from home. My job doesn't lend itself easily to wfh regularly and I really would miss the connection with my colleagues. And I say that as an introvert.

I don’t think the premise of the OP is wrong, but there are many who really, really hate working from home. My friends and relatives who had to continue working in person have overall had a better pandemic than those working from home, although it’s fair to say most were not in high risk positions, except the ICU doctor. I’d happily have swapped with DH going to work in a school every day than grind out another 9 hours on the laptop alone in a small room, and he felt completely the same.

those who can work from home will be able to holiday in 'amber' countries and work through their 10 day isolation period afterwards.

Not necessarily. I work from home and have not been allowed in the office since March 2020, but because this is not the case for all employees, none of us are allowed to work while quarantining after travel. We’d have to take annual leave or unpaid leave.

@SquashMinusIsShit

Now I dial from one meeting to the next, and the location is irrelevant. So no downtime between meetings at all. Not even one minutes.

We had this a lot, and people late to a.meeting because they'd had to go to the loo or get a.drink between back to back meetings. We changed the settings in Outlook so the default time on an invite is 25 mins or 50 mins so they end earlier.

Like teaching; back to back classes with no downtime in between, not even a minute. And no one gets a drink ir goes to the toilet because there isn’t time; there was a recent thread on here where people were up in arms at the idea that the teacher would not be in the classroom every second of the day.

My wfh experience has been awful.

I work in a call centre ( as a nurse specialist advisor ) there's around 2-3nurses on shift and 3-4 non clinical call handlers.

When a patient phones the helpline they usually get through to a non clinical staff first who then call us ( the nurses ) to transfer the call through.

I always have to tell the team via teams when I am going to the toilet, getting a drink etc so we don't all go off at the same time . Previously in the office staff could see if you had left the desk. But now it's an overkill as we work 12.5 hour shifts so I spend the day saying brb just nipping to the loo. It gets embarrassing 😳.

Sometimes your busy on another call so the call advisors are told to try our mobiles ( how can I answer my mobile when I'm on the phone to a patient ). They are also told to email us . So the whole set up is stressful you could be phoning an ambulance for a patient but also being emailed about someone else with an urgent problem. They also communicate with us on teams when a patient needs a call . So there's around 4 channels now that patient calls are coming through , it's too much I can't concentrate .

I absolutely hate my job as Teams is constantly pinging away I can't mute it in case someone types something urgent about a patient. It shouldn't be used like this but it is - I have reported several times to management. I can't concentrate on documenting calls as I'm always being interrupted .

As a result of this shitty situation I just want to go and work on a ward again .

My point is wfh doesn't work for all jobs . In this job we clearly need to be able to turn to each other and talk and say when calls are coming in and get advice . It doesn't work delaying things . I'm fed up of companies forcing us to work from home. We have actually had a member of staff leave due to now hating the job. She lived alone and was incredibly isolated so is now leaving to do temp work. There's just no consideration all money saving of the companies. I am pregnant and have no proper desk and chair I can't afford to buy them . My manager tells me she will look into whether the company can give me money towards it . I shouldn't have to work from a sofa / dining room table but I work part time so don't want to use up our babies nursery ( our only available room) as an office and like I say I simply can't afford a desk and chair .

Also please don't assume everyone wfh is not paying childcare. I am still paying the £52 nursery day because like I said every minute of my working day is accounted for and I'm plugged in available for calls for 12.5 hours so I couldn't look after my toddler at the same time .

@lemonssy yes it’s probably only those with older children who are benefiting from reduced childcare costs! The ones just using wraparound normally.

Not to forget there are a huge amount of people who receive free childcare from relatives (namely grandparents) for younger children. Should we penalise them because some people don’t get that?

In reality the majority of people who have these ‘professional’ jobs that can work from home have worked bloody hard to get there. The benefit of WFH shouldn’t be removed from them because people who work in shops (example) are annoyed about it - they need to make the changes necessary to get there if that’s the life they want.

@Lovinglavidaloca I understand but as a healthcare professional I have also worked hard to get to where I am but am now being made to work in this ridiculous situation.. the job was very different in the office . Also face having to do video calls to patients whilst wearing my uniform at home too just feels a massive invasion of privacy and one I haven't asked for !

@JeanClaudeVanDammit

those who can work from home will be able to holiday in 'amber' countries and work through their 10 day isolation period afterwards.

Not necessarily. I work from home and have not been allowed in the office since March 2020, but because this is not the case for all employees, none of us are allowed to work while quarantining after travel. We’d have to take annual leave or unpaid leave.

Same. I work in the head office of a retailer, we have a company wide policy that is applicable to store & office staff so no WFH if quarantining

Depends I have to purchase my own office equipment so that makes me less well off and if I incorporate all the extra heating and electricity bills I'm not sure about how better off I am. That's before you start on some people's needing the office to be able to separate work and home be that because of dc or otherwise.
I personally haven't gained free time because I end up working more hours just because I can and aren't paid more to do so.
The main gain for me has been the ability to finish a job that night instead of stressing overnight about it. Not a financial gain though.

www.standard.co.uk/comment/andy-burnham-government-anti-city-strategy-london-manchester-b941150.html

Good article from Andy Burnham on the importance, for the whole country, of city economies (which are fuelled in no small way by office workers). It's important to build back (but obviously with some changed policies to deal with the issues that were already problems, i.e. unaffordable housing and homelessness, pre pandemic)

How would your employer know that you had been on holiday to an amber country? I think I'd say that I was going to Cornwall if asked.