To think that WFH will divide the rich/poor more

[PipedownSue]

There's no denying that most WFH roles tend to be higher paid in comparison to ones where you have to be in a set work place. Just looking at my friends, waitress, HCA, admin assistant, receptionist, retail roles are all dependent on being in a workplace rather than at home. My role allows some home working (25%) whilst my manager does more like 75% at home because our roles differ.
The problem I see with this is that through the pandemic those who have had to work outside the home have been pushed to the limit. Food retailers like my DP have been working flat out, at one point he said that every week was like December because of how busy they were (with restaurants and pubs shut.) I have been working throughout and have worked 50 hour weeks covering for staff absences, those who are shielding, isolating etc. In the NHS we are constantly playing catch up and now most of my colleagues are working longer hours, working to cover colleagues who have left and haven't been replaced.
This isn't a woe is me post but if you compare lower paid roles where the employee continues to pay for wraparound childcare, public transport or car costs, parking, food in the workplace etc to those where someone is on full pay WFH with the added benefits of more time at home to clean, cook, exercise, family time etc. I just a society made up of depressed, burned out, unhealthy, poor people struggling with stagnant wages and an increase in cost of living and those who are well off, happy, healthy and get to live in a little bubble of privilege. Like it is now, but worse!

Also I've said this before but WFH doesn't mean working from home. You can also use cafes, co-working hubs etc so you don't have to be alone or having to put up with distracting kids.

Except for that thread recently where the DH worked for the local authority, wouldn't convert either of their two sheds to an office and his wife had to hide upstairs most of the day as his calls were apparently confidential but his employer wouldn't provide office space.

I feel very fortunate to have my job but the work/life balance has a cost. Hours are spread out longer, work/life boundary is blurred, expectations are high, endless virtual meetings and job security feels low.

I still use wraparound care 5 days a week same as pre covid. Working from home is still working. I have more flexibility to run errands, but equally it may mean I am logging on late into the night to make up for any tight deadlines.

I totally agree @PipedownSue

I was thinking exactly the same thing earlier today. There will be an even greater divide.

WFH is definitely not all it's cracked up to be. I'd love to be back in an office, mainly because I'm lonely and getting cabin fever.

Our house isn't cut out for WFH. So I have to sit on a dressing table in our bedroom to work, meaning I'm in the same room with a tiny window for 18-20hours a day.

The other big issue is my employers expectations have become ridiculous. I'm regularly expected to log on as late as 10.30pm to 'quickly check and send' work, and have daily meetings booked in between 5-8pm when I'm meant to finish at 5pm. A lot of this comes about because now we are WFH the company is employing some roles abroad to save costs and the U.K. staff are expected to accommodate the time difference.

I do however agree that NHS and supermarket staff have had it a lot worse for the past year and a half.

The childcare thing is interesting - companies usually insist that if you WFH you have childcare in place, so I think you’re on a sticky wicket to not use after school clubs. However once your children are old enough to look after themselves for the 90 mins between 3:30 and 5pm then absolutely, I wouldn’t necessarily use wraparound care.

This is a real problem as loads of wraparound care in our area has suddenly become financially unviable due to drops in numbers. Which screws over those who need it (because their jobs physically can’t be done from home) the most….

I work many more hours at home than I ever did in the office.

It's impossible to separate hone and work life.

I do not have more time to cook and clean because I am working.

The months home schooling at the same time as wfh full time were the most hellish times of my life.

I haven't had a pay rise in 2 years.

Half my colleagues were made redundant and the rest of us now do double the work.

You make a lot of ignorant assumptions OP.

[quote PipedownSue]@Missfelipe i definitely didn't say that wfh'ers aren't working. I said that they have essentially gained free time by not having a commute. Plus stayed on the same money. No one makes you log on late at night or at the weekends. Retail workers average 50 plus hours a week and have someone who monitors their twenty minute unpaid lunch break.[/quote]
I wfh and am saving at least 2 hours a day on the commute which is really great but in my organisation there is definitely more of an expectation to work later too - evenings and weekends if my manager wants something doing. To be fair, she does the same 'now I'm not travelling' and its not just our team, it seems to becoming the culture. I currently have the equivalent of a weeks hours in time credit, don't know why I bother recording it because there is little opportunity to take it.

Swings and roundabouts I guess.

I’ve done the least work I’ve ever done in my life. I get to have a 2 hour nap in the afternoon most days.

This is a million miles from my experience. Does your employer know about the naps?

@BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand

I’ve done the least work I’ve ever done in my life. I get to have a 2 hour nap in the afternoon most days.

This is a million miles from my experience. Does your employer know about the naps?

What do you think? I get my work done and meet my deadlines and attend meetings when I’m needed, our time isn’t policed minute by minute, we don’t have to clock in and out or fill in timesheets, they don’t need to know how I’m using every hour of my day. My organisation has sent out regular emails banning people from answering emails after 6 and encouraging us go take breaks and go for walks. I really don’t recognise this “living at work” that other people talk about.

**Kanitawa

I don’t think that WFH is necessarily higher paid. Doctors can’t wfh. Solicitors have to meet clients and go to court. Architects and designers have to be on site. Chefs have to be in restaurants.

I do think that most jobs have a component that can be done at home and other tasks that need to be done in the workplace. So in the long term we may see workers being partially based at home and coming to the workplace on a part time basis to do essential tasks.

DH is a highly paid finance executive whose job can be done from home, we have a large comfortable home with a designated office, he has a decent amount of flexibility.

He is struggling with it because
(a) the lack of work life balance - home is now the workplace not just the relaxing sanctuary. He feels like he never gets away from work.
(b) missing the natural camaraderie and ease of team building / day to day positive working relationships between colleagues-you simply can’t replicate this over zoom and working relationships are suffering. He really misses the social aspect and is quite lonely.
(c) he’s getting cabin fever and feels claustrophobic at home.
(d) he’s working more hours than ever before and I suspect that’s become endemic amongst many home workers. People are literally waking up and logging on. It’s not healthy.

I think a balance of one or two days a week WFH could be great but for many people doing it full time forever will be massively detrimental to mental health, even for those who do have lots of financial advantages.

The, I'm shocked that your employer hasn't realised your role can be done part-time and reduced your hours accordingly. Most employers won't pay full time salaries for 4hrs work a day.

Kanitawa

I don’t think that WFH is necessarily higher paid. Doctors can’t wfh. Solicitors have to meet clients and go to court. Architects and designers have to be on site. Chefs have to be in restaurants.

I do think that most jobs have a component that can be done at home and other tasks that need to be done in the workplace. So in the long term we may see workers being partially based at home and coming to the workplace on a part time basis to do essential tasks.

Meant to say our GP’s are all doing at least a day a week at home, calls are done from home!

[quote PipedownSue]@Missfelipe i definitely didn't say that wfh'ers aren't working. I said that they have essentially gained free time by not having a commute. Plus stayed on the same money. No one makes you log on late at night or at the weekends. Retail workers average 50 plus hours a week and have someone who monitors their twenty minute unpaid lunch break.[/quote]
Free time? I was lone parenting a child and working full time this past year. What free time? Because we’re not travelling for meetings they happen all the time. There’s less down time. I do log on late at night to keep up with the work. Both are difficult tough situations but don’t be thinking it’s been a walk in the park. I’m in a small flat with no garden working in my living space with no adult company or respite, it’s not necessarily been great for people.

@BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand

The, I'm shocked that your employer hasn't realised your role can be done part-time and reduced your hours accordingly. Most employers won't pay full time salaries for 4hrs work a day.

I don’t think it’s legal to just decide to make someone part time. My employer sees me present when I need to be and producing work, how would they possibly know what I do every minute of the day? I’m not the only one among my friendship group partial to a lunchtime nap tbh

I do half and half, 2 days in 2 days at home. Perfect balance I would say, but then I have a study to work on and shut the door at 5pm, I do however set boundaries and won’t work past my finish time by more than 10/15 minutes. I’ve had more work than ever but I’m not killing myself to get it done quicker than I can physically mange in my hours. I don’t get paid overtime, If I worked over everyday it would lower my hourly rate to a point that I wouldn’t consider acceptable! Sod that!

In my experience people who work standing up tend to get paid less than people who work sitting down. And lots of sitting down jobs can be done from home.

As someone else pointed out the lockdown was just middle class people hiding in their house while working class people brought them things.

I think how good WFH can very much depend on your home and the work.
I have a friend who works in the city. He’s be happy as he has a nice big house outside London. Plenty of room. Others at his office work in a small room in a shared house. They aren’t as happy!

I can see some jobs, like call centre staff, staying as WFH because the company can save money on rent, heating, lighting etc

Surely, we all have a choice in what job we do? What job we apply for or accept? At least a certain amount of choice anyway? My old boss was a cockney whose dad had been in prison. In her late teens/early twenties, she studied for a degree in the evenings, while working as an admin assistant in the day. After qualifying, she never looked back. My own dad went from being a plumber to being a lawyer in his thirties. You make your own luck.

You make your own luck.

If only.

I completely understand. DP and I have been WFH since lockdown began, my work aren't going back until next year and even then it will probably only be 2 days a week. Without commuting, I have gained an extra 4-5hrs a day and £400 a month - just on the train. Same for DP. It has improved our lives massively. You are not wrong.

I don’t think it’s legal to just decide to make someone part time.

It's fully legal, provided the appropriate consultation & HR processes are followed. In effect, part of the role (0.5 WTE) gets made redundant.

YANBU

Definitely OP. It's what you say but also that it will mean office type job opportunities will increasingly be limited to those who can afford spacious comfortable work from home environments.

People stuck in cramped homes or HMOs are going to suffer.

It's crap for young people just starting out - now spending all day every day in their childhood bedroom or a room in a houseshare. Missing out on natural physical interaction and unconscious networking of face to face working. Rubbish too for career changers.

Also it will be a lost avenue of escape for domestic abuse victims.

So many jobs will go. People's livelihoods rely on office workers and the office economy. Huge numbers. Cobblers, dry cleaners, coffee shops, bars, taxi drivers, bus and train staff, postroom etc.

From a customer and client perspective it's shit. Much reduced standards and poorer - slower - service. Difficult to get hold of the right person, takes ages to get transferred, messages not passed on, family noises in the background when giving out personal data including financial.

America is starting to look at return to the office. I do hope that (when it is safe) we do the same.

Because we’re not travelling for meetings they happen all the time.

This is so true! It used to be that time spent driving to a client base, or walking from one part of the building to another, was down time. Now I dial from one meeting to the next, and the location is irrelevant. So no downtime between meetings at all. Not even one minutes.

All my meetings seem to finish with "I've got to go now, I have another call"

I’m actually looking for new jobs at the moment because I’d like to be a bit busier!