To think that WFH will divide the rich/poor more

[PipedownSue]

There's no denying that most WFH roles tend to be higher paid in comparison to ones where you have to be in a set work place. Just looking at my friends, waitress, HCA, admin assistant, receptionist, retail roles are all dependent on being in a workplace rather than at home. My role allows some home working (25%) whilst my manager does more like 75% at home because our roles differ.
The problem I see with this is that through the pandemic those who have had to work outside the home have been pushed to the limit. Food retailers like my DP have been working flat out, at one point he said that every week was like December because of how busy they were (with restaurants and pubs shut.) I have been working throughout and have worked 50 hour weeks covering for staff absences, those who are shielding, isolating etc. In the NHS we are constantly playing catch up and now most of my colleagues are working longer hours, working to cover colleagues who have left and haven't been replaced.
This isn't a woe is me post but if you compare lower paid roles where the employee continues to pay for wraparound childcare, public transport or car costs, parking, food in the workplace etc to those where someone is on full pay WFH with the added benefits of more time at home to clean, cook, exercise, family time etc. I just a society made up of depressed, burned out, unhealthy, poor people struggling with stagnant wages and an increase in cost of living and those who are well off, happy, healthy and get to live in a little bubble of privilege. Like it is now, but worse!

It will be interesting to see what employers and HR departments, as well as unions, can come up with in terms of flexible working and changes in pay/benefits to help mitigate some of these issues.

We are already seeing a preference for wfh jobs. Min wage workers who previously couldn’t get a call centre job because of their location and/or lack of transport, now are able to work remotely. And they find wfh preferable to other min wage alternatives such as hospitality. It’s more convenient and they save money on travel and childcare. The result is that hospitality jobs are struggling to recruit.

We’ve had up to five of us trying to work from home simultaneously. We’ve run out of rooms. Meetings going on in the kitchen while we try to shush the dogs. Half a dining table because the rest is covered in computers and printers. It’s shit.

And DH’s office isn’t going to reopen. Humph.

I think as a general rule you are right. I work in the City and the vast majority of people are successfully wfh. Whilst I would like to be in the office some of the time now I am definitely in a better position than people who can't work from home. The more senior you are the more likely that you have some sort of home office set up and the IT equipment is supplied by the firm. A lot of the professions working in the City will have largely carried on as normal with no staff furloughed and no specific risks to job security.

That is much better than many working people and it does to some extent reflect a rich/poor divide.

I think you're right, OP, but imo it is because of the huge economic inequality we have in the UK.

When shit happens, it invariably hits the poor hardest. The Covid shit is just the same as any other shit. The fallout from the global financial crisis was the same and the austerity measures that followed, to "balance the books" after bailing out the banks, hit the poor incredibly hard.

All people can do to redress the balance a bit is vote for it, but they didn't.

My main concern is that with more people WFH the cost of public transport will go up/services will reduce. As someone who can't drive and relies on public transport that's a scary thought!

@Onandoff

Yep. Will also have to pay more for their public transport commute as fares are right down.

This.

I don’t think it’s WFH as much as the fact that the higher paid you are the more flexible and accommodating your role often is.

I don't know if I agree to be honest. Now granted I am not in the UK but we are working class as are my family and lots of my family have been able to work from home for the last year. Admin, customer service, technical support, housing etc are a few of the jobs that they do.

There seems to be a bit of an attitude on mumsnet that working class people work in pubs or supermarkets etc but that isn't the case at all with the people that I know. Sure some people will always have to go to the work place but their position isn't any worse than it was before the pandemic. Things like commute, parking costs etc are all something they would have considered before taking the job I would imagine? Dh has been working from home for the last year but prior to that his commute was 5mins, this wasn't an accident, this was him actively seeking a short commute. He also has always only looked at jobs that offered free parking. Most people I know take these things into account when looking for a job.

Perhaps the jobs market is vastly different in the UK but even if you are saddled with a job that isn't ideal to begin with you take that and keep applying for jobs until you find one that has the commute/parking/hours that work for you surely?

Personally I am not a huge fan of WFH. I changed jobs during Covid, and there is definitely something missing with my connection to colleagues.

Also work and home life seem to merge together, and the start and end of day are pretty fluid.

I completely take you point OP.

I agree with the type of job and financial benefits of WFH. But I can’t wait to get back to the office .

Can concentrate at work more and interact with other humans and reduce my emails because you can talk to colleagues face to face . Plus I want have to share an office with my husband any more . Bliss .

I don't agree with the apparent consensus it's only the high paid who get to WFH. I'm a key worker (telecoms provision and repair) and don't get me wrong I'm paid a decent wage but I'm certainly not high paid. Being a key worker, we have all worked non stop all through the pandemic but thankfully we are being given the choice moving forward whether we WFH or work in the office.
And I very much agree with PP that the choice to WFH can absolutely come with a career progression sacrifice.

I'm not saying it's not horrible for some WFH. I really felt for those WFH full time and having to homeschool children.
I know this may not be the reality for some but on my one WFH day I can leave my house, pick up DC from school, get them back and give them a snack in my lunch-break. They are then at home, happy, not in some draughty school hall. They have their toys and they can chat to me whilst I wait for a meeting to get started or if I'm on hold.
The other four days I'm bombing it from my hospital to their school and nursery. Constantly stressed, getting shit food on the way home as it's 6.30 and we're all starving. The house is a mess, we all need baths.
Even a half hour lunch break at home would give me chance to prep some tea or put the hoover round. Not saying you all have time to do that!
Also I have to book a day off to get a plumber to look at my sink, or to get my car fixed, or wait in for a new fridge to be delivered. That means that I have to spend more on holiday clubs and spend more time at work!

@Ready4abreak

I absolutely agree in part. I have said from the start of this that we have relied on lower paid workers to keep us going. However I work from home and hate it. DH is a stay at home dad meaning there are kids here whilst I'm trying to work which makes it impossible. We have one wage which means that whilst it's a decent wage we still don't have a lot of money and are stuck in a 2 bed flat with no space for me to work. Also the job I do involves working with vulnerable people meaning I often get shouted and sworn at over the phone whilst in my own home. It's horrible.

I don't feel I can ever switch off and am currently working (yes taking a break to post this!) as part of my day was taken up with an ill 4 year old who wanted his mum but normally would have had to just put up with his dad!

My work has decided we will be staying wfh rather than going back to the office and I'm sure it's great for those with space or who miss out on the commute but those of us without space really struggle.

I think in these circumstances employers post pandemic are on dodgy ground. If they do not want to pay for one centralised office, they should pay for you to access a space to work outside the home. Why should employers save huge amounts on overheads and employees lose out? We essentially have to sacrifice our home space to make someone else money. Surely employers just deciding it suits them to close an office once pandemic is over, is a significant change in contract? Employees should be consulted.

Yes definitely. The professional staff where I work have worked from home since March last year; the security, the building caretakers etc have been in the office every day.

I don't think WFH is plain sailing for everyone though. It works for me, because I live in a nice house, not massive but big enough to have a work space separate from my sitting room and kitchen, in a nice area with no crappy neighbours. And I don't work somewhere with an expectation of being contactable 24/7 like others have mentioned. So all in all it works for me.

I suspect the hybrid option will be the norm. I have colleagues who are desperate to get back in 5 days a week, I have colleagues who want to go back 2 or 3 days a week, and I have colleagues who want to be WFH full-time.

Previously in my organisation practically everyone was in the office 5 days a week and WFH was frowned up and very rare. I think the genie is out of the bottle now, and I don't think everyone where I work will be back 5 days a week in the office like they were previously.

You are not wrong. I can’t remember the name of the book at the moment, but it divided the workers between those living inside the protective walls of the corporations and those living outside. There were serious downsides to living inside the walls as well, but it’s still a better life than struggling to survive.

The pandemic made it clear to me that we are already living in that world, it’s just that the walls are invisible. My own neighborhood is full of WFH workers and we are remote enough that the only time non-residents have reason to be on our streets is when they are coming to work for us or deliver the many things we order. Those delivery trips have become even more frequent, not to mention the crews of workers to revamp gardens.

Of course, just because I see that the virtual wall exists and that I’ve landed on the better side, doesn’t mean I’ve begun clamoring to tear it down. I don’t know if that makes me evil or if it means that I’m just not sure how to make a difference.

@maddening A lot of people don't actually. None of my children's friends go to after school club any more as they all have at least one parent WFH so they just collect them in 'lunchbreak' time and then have them at home. It's a massive financial saving compared to those of us who still actually have to go to work

The problem I see with this is that through the pandemic those who have had to work outside the home have been pushed to the limit. Food retailers like my DP have been working flat out, at one point he said that every week was like December because of how busy they were (with restaurants and pubs shut.) I have been working throughout and have worked 50 hour weeks covering for staff absences, those who are shielding, isolating etc. In the NHS we are constantly playing catch up and now most of my colleagues are working longer hours, working to cover colleagues who have left and haven't been replaced.

i definitely didn't say that wfh'ers aren't working. I said that they have essentially gained free time by not having a commute. Plus stayed on the same money. No one makes you log on late at night or at the weekends.

By the same reasoning as nobody is making those wfh log on late at night, nobody is making the non-home workers stay later than allocated work times. Except there is. There is an expectation that both sides work. That we all work harder and longer than before. That we squeeze more in and cover for the unexpected new areas we have to deal with or because colleagues are shielding/furloughed or have care responsibilities. At least in a retail role, they are usually paid hourly so if they are working extra hours they are actually getting extra pay.

My salary is lower than the U.K. average, so it’s not that my role is a well paid one and therefore that’s why I can work from home. I don’t pay commuting costs and any time I saved by not commuting has been lost to my increased workload over the last year.

I agree that wfh will broaden the gap between rich and poor. WFH is only attractive to those that have space to work from home. What I disagree with is that only those out of the home have been killing themselves with hours worked.

Yes, you’re completely right. On the whole, WFH roles are the higher paid “professional” ones. I’ve been wfh for the past year and honestly, I’ve done the least work I’ve ever done in my life. I get to have a 2 hour nap in the afternoon most days. I realise this isn’t everyone’s experience but I don’t recognise the working flat out and never switching off people speak of. I’m basically being paid the same salary to do about 4 hours work a day and have more time pottering about doing my laundry, walking the dog, nipping out for coffees with friends. I can totally see why that would cause a divide and resentment, and you’re right, without the lower paid service workers the world would grind to a halt. I’ve got utmost respect for people doing those jobs. This isn’t a stealth boast, I actually think the situation is quite grotesque when you really think about it. But even those who say WFH has meant double the work, they might not be having a nice time but the fact still exists that they’re at home and likely being paid more than people who aren’t.

“ Also I have to book a day off to get a plumber to look at my sink, or to get my car fixed, or wait in for a new fridge to be delivered. That means that I have to spend more on holiday clubs and spend more time at work!”

Tbh I think you’re just having a moan just because of your career decisions. Teachers have got 3 months off so don’t need to find childcare in summer whilst I’ll have to. Should teachers stop having that time ?

If I want to see my family then I need time off as I live far away from them , whilst some others live around the corner or their family and they don’t need any time off work.

We all make decisions , and based on that we will have some facilities or others.

I've certainly noticed a divide in my friendship group since the first lockdown. We're working class (London) and lots of my friends who I grew up with are now middle class, worked hard, some went to uni and have now moved out of London, bought houses and have well paid jobs, some are quite senior. We all had similar interests and outlooks and did similar things on weekends etc until the lockdown hit and all of a sudden we were polar opposites, them wfh with all the difficulties that came with that and me redeployed within the NHS to an inpatient setting with several Covid wards. We suddenly had such different experiences, with (from my perspective) them wfh, homeschooling for those who had kids, not going out at all, washing shopping and getting deliveries, being frightened to go for a walk or pop to the shop when they'd run out of something. We carried on as normal, we went to work, we took one kid to school and the youngest a family member who was furloughed and lives 10mins away looked after in our home with her older kids who were off school so we saw them 3 days a week. It's complex because we have another close family member who needed to be cared for and also other family members work in the same hospital or got redeployed there so everyone in our close family and some extended family members actually saw more of each other than before! The normality of us going to work as usual and the normality of working in Covid settings sort of made us just get on with it and whilst we were very very cautious with the family member who was ECV Covid became not particularly frightening for us- which was the opposite of their experiences. It became harder to relate on both sides and things have sort of dropped off. I know other younger family members who were furloughed had similar experiences with their wfh friends. It's sad really as it's impacted relationships.

Your wrong - There are many working from home and advertised Customer Service jobs that are now and will be with on NMW or not much more. Check indeed lots

Although I think WFH is not ideal, I definitely agree that there is becoming a social divide with the whole WFH thing.

If you have a spare room to use as your office, and your OH has another room in the house to use as an office, fine. However for people living in bedsits or shared houses, WFH is a nightmare.

@lavenderandwisteria

I don’t think it’s WFH as much as the fact that the higher paid you are the more flexible and accommodating your role often is.

Yes I think that's true.

We've been lucky that we were able to afford to have a garden room installed so I have that, DH uses the office I used to use and DS used his bedroom for college when it was online.

But WFH isn't new, I've been doing it at least one day a week since 2008 and ad hoc even before that. It's good that it is now in the mainstream and I actually think it's the opposite of setting women back as it affords more flexibility. It also opens up jobs for disabled people.