To think that WFH will divide the rich/poor more

[PipedownSue]

There's no denying that most WFH roles tend to be higher paid in comparison to ones where you have to be in a set work place. Just looking at my friends, waitress, HCA, admin assistant, receptionist, retail roles are all dependent on being in a workplace rather than at home. My role allows some home working (25%) whilst my manager does more like 75% at home because our roles differ.
The problem I see with this is that through the pandemic those who have had to work outside the home have been pushed to the limit. Food retailers like my DP have been working flat out, at one point he said that every week was like December because of how busy they were (with restaurants and pubs shut.) I have been working throughout and have worked 50 hour weeks covering for staff absences, those who are shielding, isolating etc. In the NHS we are constantly playing catch up and now most of my colleagues are working longer hours, working to cover colleagues who have left and haven't been replaced.
This isn't a woe is me post but if you compare lower paid roles where the employee continues to pay for wraparound childcare, public transport or car costs, parking, food in the workplace etc to those where someone is on full pay WFH with the added benefits of more time at home to clean, cook, exercise, family time etc. I just a society made up of depressed, burned out, unhealthy, poor people struggling with stagnant wages and an increase in cost of living and those who are well off, happy, healthy and get to live in a little bubble of privilege. Like it is now, but worse!

I see it as a privilege. I'm earning more than I've ever earned before and have the lowest outlay for getting to work I've had too. I work flexibly, have moved to a cheaper area further away from the office in order to afford a proper office which I can shut the door on every night. And I don't get sucked into work outside of work hours, never have done, I work flexi and work the hours I want and claim back for any extra work I've needed to do. I get odd jobs done throughout the day dove tailing my work tasks, exercise on my lunch break and pick the kids up earlier than I've ever needed to. Ive never felt more presence and on top of work and life.

I did change careers for this though, my last role was customer facing and I never could have WFH to this level in that role, I took a more corporate role tangentially related knowing full well WFH would be possible which was what I was aiming for.

I'm very lucky and I know it (whilst understanding it's also not everyone's cup of tea!) and yes, no way I could have done it in my junior roles, flexible and home working has opened up more as I've progressed, senior management just tends to be more desk based in many sectors I guess to make it fit well with home working.

I agree potentially on the financial side and type of work.

However sadly I have not gained any me time from this. My work is incessant. It's all
I can do to take a pee. People know where you are and how to get you whereas previously my team were out and about all over. Same for my husband who typically is working a 14-16 hour day. There is no differentiation between work and home. My work mobile rang at 9.30 last night, I thought it must be an emergency, no just someone about a fucking budget!

What pisses me off is all the "take care of yourself and your mental health" shit spouted by these major companies yet they are quite happy to take advantage of staff working these hours.

I hate what Covid has done to my work life quite honestly.

I'm on the opposite side of the fence to you OP but I admit I have thought about this.

I feel really sorry for everybody that needs to work in a certain place. Think a divide will develop.

I think some people have missed the premise of the post because they are caught up in their struggles WFH but yeah it absolutely has and will increase the divide. It’s not even as simple as the hours lost to the commute or money saved in childcare. It’s things like the increased digital divide. In my role you need to have a dedicated room for working that is not accessible to others, high speed broadband and good IT knowledge. Pre-COVID home broadband speeds were irrelevant to recruitment and we were more open to taking on people who needed significant help with IT.
It can increase insularity and lessen the mixing of social classes etc. I’ve noticed friends becoming more judgmental of their junior colleagues or people they deal with at work this past year as they aren’t seeing them as a person so much as a series of annoyances and mistakes. They are missing the nuance that they got working face to face. I’ve heard them complain that so and so is “thick” rather than acknowledging she may just not have benefitted from their education and training.
Part of my job role is advocating for vulnerable people and I’ve also found that with more appointments being conducted as telehealth that it can be harder. It can be easier for doctors to be blunt over the phone or to miss the nuance that would tell them this person wasn’t “malingering.” It’s been harder to sort housing and other issues as it’s easier for someone to just say “not my problem” and hang up or stop replying to emails than it is to do face to face. Not to mention many of my clients were relying on libraries to fulfill their UC requirements and don’t really use the internet and with more and more moving to wfh and online that deepens the divide

I'm sorry to everyone who is struggling working from home. It's not ideal for so many people and essentially it does come down to those with more space, control over their workload, less childcare commitments and their own home. Without it being a comparison of who's worse off, I think companies need to think carefully about how they treat lower paid workers. There are more vacancies out there than ever before and many might jump ship to WFH roles if they can. I wonder who will choose to do these roles in the future? Why would someone go into a doctors office to be shouted at by patients in reception when they could stay at home and be a data entry clerk for the same or more money? Less cleaning roles as offices don't need cleaning and people are in their houses more. I imagine a lot of retailers and cafes aimed at office workers will close. So much change ahead.
Grateful for my job and home.

@Peoniesandpeaches yes I see that at work too. Also work with vulnerable people (usually middle aged men at risk of mental health relapse, substance abuse, homelessness, offending) they don't want to share their thoughts and concerns with someone they've never met via zoom! They don't have the IT skills let alone the equipment to access so many of these resources which used to be face to face.

I think all those who state that their jobs can be easily done from home permanenly need to have a think about what that means. If you can do it remotely, so can a person in India on half your wage.

Really good posts Peonies and Pipedown

@Draculahhh especially the ones who kick up a fuss about having to come back into the office once a week or something, come on! Don't give the greedy employers any excuse.
At least the environment will benefit, ludicrous to think how many people used to travel in every day to sit at a computer when they had one at home!

I work from home and i agree with you; it will deepen the divide.

If you can do it remotely, so can a person in India on half your wage
I disagree with this. You often need to speak to someone who’s a native English speaker and understands the nuances of Western society. Look at how people complain about dealing with non-native speakers just to sort out their utility bill. Now imagine the hassle if that was something important and complex that you were trying to resolve.

This is interesting because if you accept that a divide is appearing or widening because of the rise of wfh it raises the question of whether this is a problem that needs to be addressed. Presumably by forcing or motivating people into offices. And that doesn’t feels helpful to me. Artificially withholding benefits from one group because others can’t access them doesn’t actually help those others.

On the other hand, inequality in and of itself clearly is a problem.

I can’t help thinking that the fairest solution is more about general wealth redistribution and opening up access to job and training opportunities than artificially keeping people who could take advantage of wfh from doing so.

@Tobermorie

If you can do it remotely, so can a person in India on half your wage I disagree with this. You often need to speak to someone who’s a native English speaker and understands the nuances of Western society. Look at how people complain about dealing with non-native speakers just to sort out their utility bill. Now imagine the hassle if that was something important and complex that you were trying to resolve.

Lots of Indian born (and other migrant) people live and work here in the UK. They and their colleagues manage just fine.

I think all those who state that their jobs can be easily done from home permanenly need to have a think about what that means. If you can do it remotely, so can a person in India on half your wage.

I doubt it in my field. In my role, you need an excellent native command of English plus the cultural intelligence that only comes from living in a country for a long time. My boss also likes us to work in the same time zone when possible because that helps with meeting scheduling.

But in more perfunctory roles, I can see a lot of foreign outsourcing happening yes.

I can’t help thinking that the fairest solution is more about general wealth redistribution and opening up access to job and training opportunities than artificially keeping people who could take advantage of wfh from doing so.

Housing is a key issue though. Significant numbers do not have suitable WFH environments.

Work away from home is also a means of escape (sometimes a lifesaving one) for domestic abuse victims.

With training and new opportunities, there's often no substitute for real life in-person face to face interaction. Particularly for younger new starters (or older career changers). It's a natural unconscious networking.

As a customer and client, WFH has been a poor experience. Lowered standards of service - and data privacy concerns.

doubt it in my field. In my role, you need an excellent native command of English plus the cultural intelligence that only comes from living in a country for a long time.

So your boss wouldn't employ a migrant? Someone new to the UK. That sounds like discrimination to me.

One positive, that I'm pretty excited about because I can see it happening where I live - is the distribution of wealth around the country.

People are moving out of the cities and heading for villages that could use the cash injection. And it's a different kettle of fish to holiday homes because these are homes will be lived in. Local shops will open back up, post offices, primary schools etc.

You've obviously missed the recent threads SecondCityShark The 'locals' are not very happy about the 'levelling up'. They're discovering that 'investment' in their area equals being priced out. And they're vocally quite unhappy about it.

So your boss wouldn't employ a migrant? Someone new to the UK. That sounds like discrimination to me.

Of course he bloody would. What an idiotic thing to say. He's a migrant himself. But he wouldn't hire a migrant in my line of work unless they could match my skill set with colloquial and formal British language use and British (multi-demographic) psychology.

But there are plenty of other roles in the company that he'd happily fill with migrant workers yes because he's all for equal opportunities.

You seem out for an argument, had a rough day? 🤔

@AntiWorkBrigade I agree! The solution is NOT to force everyone working at home back into the office. I think training and more access to more opportunities is a good stepping stone, for example in my trust they brought back Band 4 posts for HCA's which allow them to coordinate shifts and write some reports. This allows more shifts to be downgraded and are actually better for the trust rather than getting agency. I think there's way more apprenticeships coming so you can still get paid whilst getting qualified.
It's more in the private sector where people get stuck. I remember being a dental receptionist thinking 'well what's next?' It's not like you ever get to become the dentist! Catering is similar, no real progression past supervisor. At Caffè Nero I've heard there's a bottleneck where people wait up to five years to become a store manager! What chance do these people have to ever own a home or have children?

And at the end of the day it's still only a small proportion of people moving out of cities. The vast majority are staying put.

You've obviously missed the recent threads SecondCityShark The 'locals' are not very happy about the 'levelling up'. They're discovering that 'investment' in their area equals being priced out. And they're vocally quite unhappy about it.

Christ, somebody's on one.

I'm a local myself and I'm seeing the bigger picture. I'm seeing houses that have been empty for years being bought, and long-dormant shops being opened etc.

Some of these newcomers will create businesses and jobs.

Not everybody agrees but I am actually allowed my own opinion without running it past you first. Thanks.

Totally agree OP, but I predict the vast majority will be back at the office before too long anyway - from the managerial levels of course, but they were able to work from home long before the pandemic anyway.

This is a really interesting thread and in response to your OP - yes I think you’re right. The divide will increase.

I’m enjoying the flexibility of WFH - being able to collect the kids, arrange appointments during working hours knowing I can make up the time later etc. But then I find myself working until 8-9pm and wishing I hadn’t taken the time in the first place!

On one hand I’m keen to reduce the amount of childcare I need to pay for (not much anyway to be honest) but for my own selfish reasons I’ll be gutted if the after school club has to close because it’s not feasible for them anymore. They’ve already cancelled holiday club because it runs at a loss anyway and would be worse this year. Should I still send my children even though they don’t need (or want) to go just to help them stay afloat? Unsure!

Someone made a point about career progression which I feel is hugely valid especially for those who have changed jobs during the pandemic. I did and being at a junior level I should really make an effort to get into the office a few times per week to ‘schmooze’.

In terms of working environment I’m at a desk in my bedroom so I’m spending probably 18-20 hours of my day in one room which can’t be that healthy really! But in that regard I could certainly be worse off.

• apart from the managerial levels