Short school skirts

[Kteeb1]

AIBU to think the reason given to me for girls not wearing skirts at school is worrying? So just been called by the school. Apparently all parents have been because girls skirts are very short and it's against school policy. I can only assume the little tyke (13) is rolling her school skirt up because it's not short when she leaves the house and ill sort it when she gets in, but I am concerned with what the female teacher said to me. The reason why the girls skirts shouldn't be short is because male teachers and other boys may feel uncomfortable. Also out of school grounds the girls might be attacked. And young girls must learn to protect their dignity. I have no problem with a uniform and following it, but if male teachers are uncomfortable in seeing a 13 year old with a short skirt, should they really be teaching? And why are we saying what a person wears means they may be attacked. I did ask if any girls had been attacked and I didn't get an answer. I just think it's a really bad message that girls have to change what they wear for those reasons.

[quote Grellbunt]These are their role models (just one example) so why are we surprised school girls want to dress this way?

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9699701/Ciara-black-wows-plunging-miniskirt-stiletto-lace-heels-reclaimed-pre-baby-weight.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ico=taboola_feed[/quote]
In what was would this person be considered a role model? Serious parenting fail if a teenager thinks this.

Polkadot, you clearly live in a different world socially to many of the parents I observe! And anyway, parents aren't controlling who their kids consider role models - it's fed to them via their phones

@Grellbunt

Polkadot, you clearly live in a different world socially to many of the parents I observe! And anyway, parents aren't controlling who their kids consider role models - it's fed to them via their phones

But parenting involves raising them with values where this type of article would make them feel a bit sad for that girl, not want to copy her.

With respect, you're extremely naive.

I agree with you, and those would be my values too, but many wouldn't.

That woman is very wealthy and famous and is described in glowing terms:

"Since marrying in 2016, the Wilsons have been taking major strides in becoming power players in entertainment and philanthropy

In 2019, they launched Why Not Me Productions, with the goal of wanting to 'share entertaining and educational stories', and they help run Why Not You Foundation, a nonprofit focused on motivating and empowering young kids, among other endeavors. "

@Grellbunt

With respect, you're extremely naive.

I agree with you, and those would be my values too, but many wouldn't.

That woman is very wealthy and famous and is described in glowing terms:

"Since marrying in 2016, the Wilsons have been taking major strides in becoming power players in entertainment and philanthropy

In 2019, they launched Why Not Me Productions, with the goal of wanting to 'share entertaining and educational stories', and they help run Why Not You Foundation, a nonprofit focused on motivating and empowering young kids, among other endeavors. "

And yet she is dressing like that, if running charities aimed at children? Right, ok.

Being wealthy does not equate to being a suitable role model. Anybody sensible would be teaching their children that their value comes from integrity and kindness not wealth and skimpy clothing.

It's really lovely to see a few of you on board for writing a letter to being addressing this. My plan is to possibly start a new thread after I've written a brief first draft which I'll link to on here some time next week.

I can't imagine how any school could EVER argue against people not wanting to see the bums and underwear of children so I'd like to hope we have a real chance of making a positive change for girls in society

Begin not being*

Yawn. Im so fed up with this. I'm a straight, female secondary school teacher. The skirt length of some girls makes me feel uncomfortable. Not because it causes me to have uncontrollable sexual urges, but because I just dont want to see someone else's arse hanging out of the bottom of their skirt.

We're all trying to teach boys that its not okay to text random people a picture of their knob or expose themself in public. Why are some people so keen to enshrine girls' rights to expose their underwear to anyone who happens to be walking behind them up the stairs?

When I pull girls up on this, they think I'm being a bitch. But if a male teacher were to pull them up, he'd be branded as a paedo. Please leave male teachers alone. Most of them are doing a bloody good job.

With you all the way Prof! My daughter is 3.5, I don’t want this for her. Of course it’s a massive societal issue, but we have to start somewhere.

@sharksarecool agree with you 1000%.

I hate the fact that some girls do this to make themselves look ‘attractive.’ Most don’t. Most look so much better with knee length skirts. I agree, OP, the wording was insensitive, we must never hold girls accountable for how a man behaves. We must, however, hold them accountable for behaving properly, appropriately and with self-respect. Uniform rules are there for a reason - to prepare them for adult life. It isn’t appropriate in most jobs to flash your knickers, as many PPs have said. I’m a female heterosexual teacher and it makes me uncomfortable to see children’s underwear when they are dressed inappropriately. It makes them look slovenly and as though they have no self-respect. There’s a time and a place for short skirts and school isn’t it. Make her wear trousers.

@sharksarecool exactly!

@Kteeb1 any chance you could let me know what school this is?

@Ozanj

The girls who shorten their skirts do it to get male attention at all or any cost. It is most definitely for the boys so I would punish her by making her wear the trouser option.

Utter rubbish. Many of the girls we spoke to just wanted to look modern, and avoid looking old fashioned. Look at the figures on self-esteem and body positivity amongst teen girls! Girls are saying they don't actually like their bodies, but just want to follow what the high street dictates. They're caught between modesty and marketing. Boys don't come into it.

I'm in agreement, @sharksarecool.
Even worse, our sixth form don't wear uniform and the hot weather has meant some of them dressing more for the beach than a school. Boob tubes, halter tops, strapless tops, teeny skirts, short shorts. It really is a very sexualised form of dressing and has definitely got worse. Some of my male colleagues say that they don't look at the girls at all, they look above their heads or at the wall behind, so anxious are they not to be accused of perving. They have stopped 1-2-1 guidance and won't talk to them after class. I don't know a solution.

“They have stopped 1-2-1 guidance and won't talk to them after class. I don't know a solution.”

This is worrying. Will it get to the stage of all male teachers being chaperoned by a female professional? Will they end up having to wear body cams like the police? It seems like there is already an impact on teaching provision. Also it’s such a shame that your male colleagues @Maireas feel they can’t even look at the girls at all. We had a female teacher who stared over our heads all the time in my high school, and it was really bizarre!

It really vexes me, @AriadnetheSpider. These are decent men who just want to do a good job. It troubles me that the clothing is so sexualised. They're young and want to be fashionable. Letters have gone home to parents, to no avail. The head of sixth form is a man and feels anxious about it. The head says if men want to avoid the sixth form area to go round by the other stairs. I would love all girls and women to feel body confident, and would argue strongly about our right to choose and condemn any victim blaming, but it really is a problem.

@ProfPickles

I'm female and work in a school and the girls in short skirts make me feel uncomfortable.

They're so short I see one of their bums every single day and these are children. I don't want to see the bums of children and girls wearing skirts so short that if you walk behind them up the stairs you can see up.

I feel like the boys uniforms present them as smart preparing for the work place (one argument made for a smart uniform) and the girls does them a disservice because mini skirts so short you can see bum cheeks every day isn't good enough. The women working there wouldn't be allowed to wear them so why are our girls seen as less important?

I'm always a bit confused when people stick up for girls wearing tiny skirts, it just seems like an obvious way girls are sexualised from a young age

I came on to say basically this. I'm a teacher too. I'm all for body confidence and girls wearing what they want, bum cheeks and all. In the appropriate situations.

School is equivalent to their workplace. We're preparing them (apparently) for their future. Boys wear a business casual uniform but the girls uniform can be adapted to something that wouldn't look out of place in a nightclub. It's just not appropriate.

Yes it's sexualisation of girls from a very young age.
My dds wore trousers. All the students wore the same PE kit. None of this tight cycling, show your are off, shorts. Baggy proper sports shorts for both boys and girls. School issue track suits were allowed. Again only the standard issue. Loose fitting and practical. It was a very sporty school and both my dds did well at sport. Non of the embarrassment I endure having to wear a PE skirt for PE. I mean for lords sake how could you ever compete seriously whilst wearing a short loose fitting skirt?

"Please remind all pupils that skirts more than xx cm above the knee are not appropriate for a school environment and therefore are not accepted within the school's uniform policy." Totally fine .

"Please remind girls that short skirts are distracting and / or uncomfortable to male teachers and pupils therefore are not permitted." Totally not fine.

Surely people can see the difference?

Wish our school would say that some of the girls have the tiniest skirts like they are going clubbing.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

"Please remind all pupils that skirts more than xx cm above the knee are not appropriate for a school environment and therefore are not accepted within the school's uniform policy." Totally fine .

"Please remind girls that short skirts are distracting and / or uncomfortable to male teachers and pupils therefore are not permitted." Totally not fine.

Surely people can see the difference?

Agree.

Yes it's sexualisation of girls from a very young age

Yes, telling girls that their skirt lengths are so sexy they bother male teachers and lead to harassment by boys, and that those problems will disappear if only you change) is one of the strongest sexualisation messages there is.

Back in the day when Twiggy was a model I had to wear a tunic for school. The skirt length rule was maximum of 3 inches above the knee or, when fashions change - as they did about 1971 - 3 inches below the knee. When kneeling down.

Part of the uniform was a canvas purse belt. It was against the school rules to leave any money in cloakrooms, blazer pockets etc. You put it on just below your diaphragm and then pushed it down to your waist.

Skirt was instantly about 8 inches above the knee. 800 girls of in black mini-skirts. 4 inch heels. We played lacrosse. We looked just like St Trinian's.

The school was direct grant, 20% went to Oxbridge, so it wasn't a question of low aspirations. It was the fashion but thankfully a lot less 'pornified' than today. Knickers were bikini type not thongs, thank God.

Brilliant from a financial pov - I used to make skirts from half a yard of 36-inch wide material, a deep hem and a waistband. About 16 inches in length.

My DM didn't mind, either I was eligible for free school meals so saving money was important.

As many have said, we were expected to judge what was appropriate and stick to it.

Some rebels took great delight once we got to LVth and could wear skirts to delay going into summer uniform and just stop wearing jumper but with a coloured bra so fluorescent that it could be seen from outer space.

Up until about 1969 most bras were white. The Wonderbra only came on the scene in about 1974-5 from memory.

I'm getting old

Those stretchy micro skirts are disgusting and have no place in school, the only reasons the school needs to give is that they are breaking uniform rules, and they are making ALL staff feel uncomfortable because it's so difficult for them to challenge this without risking false accusations.

I think issues with uniform work both ways though. Lots of the secondaries round here have adopted blazers, ties, school branded PE kits (and incidentally I noticed on one of their websites that with the schools own PE shorts, the girls shorts were much smaller than the boys which really pissed me off). I'm a big supporter of school uniform because it's a good equaliser and takes away at least one thing that could cause bullying. But the schools themselves are making them ridiculously expensive now and I think it's really unfair on parents- I thought this was meant to be one of the reasons for uniform- that it avoids the competition of wearing expensive brands which leaves the kids from families with less money at a disadvantage. They insist on these expensive school branded uniforms with lots of different items and I don't think it's fair on parents. Schools want the support of parents but they don't make it easy to engage with them when they don't show much consideration for the financial burden they're placing on them with such expensive uniforms.

I think it would be good if schools worked with the pupils and parents and a practical, low cost uniform that the kids were happier to wear would surely be better? One of the secondaries I went to had a good uniform- comfy polo shirts with no tie (I hated ties at my next school), black trousers or skirt (although when I went to secondary in the early 2000s most of the girls wanted to wear trousers), and they also allowed us to wear plain black trainers as well. The only branded thing our parents had to buy was school branded sweatshirts. PE kit was just black shorts/joggers and a white t shirt. So much cheaper and less up its own arse than some of the school uniforms these days.

It was so much more practical and comfy. I don't think kids need to look 'businesslike' in ties ffs, they're schoolkids. They just need to be wearing the same as each other really and not like complete scruffs- it was actually harder to make a polo shirt/sweatshirt combo look as scruffy as creased up shirts that were always coming untucked and ties that were worn in all different styles and that had been modified, usually with crap written all over them. That's what we did at the next secondary I went to and I hated that uniform compared to the first.

Sports and athleisure is a real trend at the moment and I wonder if kids would go for a uniform along those lines and more like the one I had at my first secondary. Schools are right to insist rules are followed and that pupils are dressed appropriately (and decently!) but I don't think they're making life easy for themselves or parents with the uniforms they insist on in the first place.