Short school skirts

[Kteeb1]

AIBU to think the reason given to me for girls not wearing skirts at school is worrying? So just been called by the school. Apparently all parents have been because girls skirts are very short and it's against school policy. I can only assume the little tyke (13) is rolling her school skirt up because it's not short when she leaves the house and ill sort it when she gets in, but I am concerned with what the female teacher said to me. The reason why the girls skirts shouldn't be short is because male teachers and other boys may feel uncomfortable. Also out of school grounds the girls might be attacked. And young girls must learn to protect their dignity. I have no problem with a uniform and following it, but if male teachers are uncomfortable in seeing a 13 year old with a short skirt, should they really be teaching? And why are we saying what a person wears means they may be attacked. I did ask if any girls had been attacked and I didn't get an answer. I just think it's a really bad message that girls have to change what they wear for those reasons.

Strawberrylipstick My school has a plain black policy- trousers/skirt/ v-neck jumper/cardigan / shoes, shirt, tie and a school blazer. However, the blazer is lightweight and is bought from the school for £30-£35. There is then a recycling service- when it gets too small you can wash and swap for a larger one if you wish. Pupils in receipt of school meals get £120 grant towards uniform. PE tshirts are £10 with plain, black shorts.

It's very reasonable. But we still have the issues with disgustingly short skirts. I used to be able to send pupils with such skirts to head of year every day, but it's so endemic it gets impossible to deal with apart from the more outrageous cases and we're now told it affects their 'rights'.

Interestingly, when I started teaching 27 years ago we had a different uniform of polo shirts and sweatshirts with the option of shirt and tie for those who wished. It looked lovely- navy and pale blue- but the joggers were an issue with kids increasingly wearing branded (which is against the whole point of levelling) and this got so bad they changed it to trousers/skirt. We now know where this is going- skirt lengths became the issue!

I don't know the answer.

Same discussion with my DD, her skirts too short - she says problem is, you do end up looking ‘dumpy and frumpy’ if you don’t join in so it ends up being a sheep mentality but also MY BODY MY RULES dynamic

What doesn’t help is telling girls it’s because men feel uncomfortable, it honestly enrages them to do it more - girls at DD school have started a feminist group as so outraged at ‘being told what to do by men’ (male HOY) that this pushes them into an angry anti men stance

DD got new skirts - all threatened with suspension otherwise, but all outraged the boys can carry on saying sexualised language and slurs to them now seemingly justified because skirts are short.

Am all for just telling them it’s not the uniform policy - no men need to be cited as the reason

I agree @Puffalicious that it's really hard to actually come up with the answer. Perhaps at times the lack of dialogue doesn't helps- schools (not just schools but that's what we're discussing here) are very good at setting out rules without giving the reasoning. So if a reasonable uniform could be agreed and a discussion about why it's important to stick to it because of levelling up it may help perhaps?

The polo shirts/sweatshirt with trousers/trainers was the most practical uniform we had and it was cheap. Your school does sound reasonable- I do think blazers/ties look stupid though especially on the younger ones but that's just me 😂

I definitely think schools opening up more of a dialogue with pupils and parents and discussing what would be a uniform that the kids would be happy to wear, that they would stick to wearing and the reasons for this and that is also cheap would help. Allow plain trainers etc- comfy and practical. I think a lot of the time skirts are made shorter partly to rebel against what they see as a horrible uniform so they'll do anything to make it look better (in their eyes of course) or to annoy the school. Give them a bit more say in agreeing a suitable uniform and it might help. They'll always be ones who take the piss but it would be less.

I appreciate its not easy for schools with everything they have to cover though.

Back to the OP - I am actually stunned that in this day and age any school would mention males rather than just saying inappropriate full stop.

@Grellbunt

Back to the OP - I am actually stunned that in this day and age any school would mention males rather than just saying inappropriate full stop.

I agree. To say it's inappropriate and not suitable for wearing to school is all that needed to be said.

@Grellbunt

My DD is 16 this is the email we had

We have had some interesting variations in uniform since returning to school and this has mainly been with female students. The main issue is the length of skirt that the girls are wearing, and they are completely inappropriate as well as being very tight fitting. We have also seen a surge of tight- fitting tops that are also not appropriate for a school setting. Other items that are appearing are, leggings, trainers, designer jumpers with large logos across the chest, hoodies and boys not wearing ties. All students have been made fully aware of the correct dress code for Sixth Form, and could I ask you to reinforce the importance of dressing in the correct fashion in a professional setting. If we continue to see flaunting of guidance, which can be found on the link below, then students will be asked to return home to change to the appropriate attire.

In person the teacher was pretty angry and the girls felt upset by how he spoke to them - he didn’t speak to the hoody wearing boys in the same manner. Hence they have started a feminist anti men club 🥴

@Menora I probably shouldn't but that did make me laugh, your DD and her friends sound great 😂

At the end of the day the students and the uniform represent the school and it's image

I'm not surprised the school aren't happy with girls walking around with their arse cheeks on display

If you were considering sending your child to said school and you see girls walking around looking trashy would you want to send your child there?

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

They all so angry! I agree that skirts too short and been not happy about it myself but I think he did not express the school policy in a manner that came across that well directly, he very much was some middle aged dude like an angry dad telling them off. Boys breaking uniform too but girls being told off/called out worse due to it being related to sexuality? Not sure

@Menora he sounds quite dim tbh. And probably misogynistic if he's treating the boys differently.

He's right about the skirts being too short and that they should all be sticking to uniform rules but to treat them differently from the boys is poor.

It feels that way. Uniform rules being broken is the issue, not that skirts are worse than trainers. Yeah you see less flesh with trainers but that’s not the point. Both are breaking the rules. Otherwise it does come across as sexism. No one needs to know who is the worst offender and so descriptive!

Well it is a bit weird to complain about being sexualised when you yourself are choosing to wear sth that you know actually displays your bum and underwear during normal activities.

They used to make us stitch a false hem on the bottom of the skirt during breaktimes if it was too short in the 80s. I just caught the tail end of the late 70s when skirts were below the knee and girls tried to make them longer.
I see one or two schools have long skirts as part of the uniform: Mount Kelly College has long kilts and Casterton College has ankle length grey skirts.

A false hem sounds brilliant! I can imagine the faces of my pupils!

Agree should be no mention of males/ dress justifying behaviour but it IS sexualised. I object hugely to 12-18 yo showing me their private parts. I feel the same about certain club/festival wear which shows private parts too. It's not a feminist issue, I'm a proud feminist, I just find it distasteful.

There are seven secondary schools within walking distance from me and honestly, i do see plenty of rolled up skirts from every school that has girls, but rarely anything thats actually obscene.
Even at the girls granmar they do it. Even my dds girlfriend does it and shes gay. I think that assuming they all do it for male attention is just wrong and this insinuation is part of the bloody problem. Assuming schoolgirls are trying to be sexy when theyre 12. We have posts about how primary school girls shouldnt have to wear modesty shorts, but at secondary school its open season for accusations that theyre asking for it.
Miniskirts are not obscene. I love a minidress in the summer sometimes.
If there is a big issue with girls wearing skirts too short, then its one thing to suggest they wear shorts underneath, but quite another to suggest they are trying to be sexy. I dont think its nice to put adult motives onto adolescents

If there is a uniform or a dress code teenagers will rebel against it, it is hardwired into our genes!
I was at an all girls school in the 70s and early eighties. There were no male staff. Our skirts had to touch the floor while we were kneeling. We ALL rolled the waistband because it was the 'thing' to do.
However as I drive DD to school I do see some very inappropriate length skirts - the micro mini lycra ones are the worst. It makes me uncomfortable - I don't WANT to see people's pants or worse. I feel just as uncomfortable when I see young men with their pants showing.
DD's school introduced a kilt style skirt that was supposedly 'impossible' to roll up........ They gave vouchers from the school for the first skirt and the uniform supplier wasn't allowed to sell them unless they long enough . But the girls found a way and there are many girls with blazers longer than their skirts.
I can see why some schools are opting for trousers only - that would be DD's worst nightmare as she has massive sensory issues and can't cope with trousers - she wears tight cycling shorts under her skirt so she can't feel it moving across her legs - and wears leggings or shorts when not at school.
I really don't know what the answer is.

@Maireas

I'm in agreement, *@sharksarecool*. Even worse, our sixth form don't wear uniform and the hot weather has meant some of them dressing more for the beach than a school. Boob tubes, halter tops, strapless tops, teeny skirts, short shorts. It really is a very sexualised form of dressing and has definitely got worse. Some of my male colleagues say that they don't look at the girls at all, they look above their heads or at the wall behind, so anxious are they not to be accused of perving. They have stopped 1-2-1 guidance and won't talk to them after class. I don't know a solution.

So true! I do some tutoring and am amazed at the clothes the girls turn up in, having come straight from the local independent school. One young lady appeared in calf length dress which looked fine until she sat down, revealing thigh high splits, and I mean very high, pactically knicker high 😏

thats incredible that male staff are refusing to speak to girls dressing in halter necks or boob tubes at a college. Really odd

Yes, that would be odd, @Branleuse. I don't know, I don't teach in a college but I should think they still have to communicate!
I teach in a school, and some men teachers are not doing the 1-2-1 feedbacks with sixth form girls, but colleagues have stepped in.

"...problem is, you do end up looking ‘dumpy and frumpy’ if you don’t join in so it ends up being a sheep mentality but also MY BODY MY RULES dynamic"

I wonder what would happen if the boys decided to expose themselves at school? If they sat with their trousers open and their dicks hanging out? Does that fall into the MY BODY MY RULES dynamic? I think not. The school and parents would be up in arms about how disgusting and inappropriate it was. So girls wearing thongs in plain view with their arse cheeks on show should be clamped down on.

@JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn

I was repeating what a 16 year old thinks. Not what I think

We have to question why they think that way though.

The my body my rules mantra has gone askew I think. Saw this in the news recently. Who wants to sit eating their burger next to someone with their boobs hanging out. What happened to self respect or respect for others?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9696457/Wetherspoon-pub-kicked-two-women-flooded-scathing-TripAdvisor-reviews.html

@Menora I know it wasn't your thoughts. Apologies if it came across that way.

So it used to be that the bikini scene with Babs Windsor in Carry On was sexist

Now, objecting to women looking like that is sexist

I'm not sure that's progress for women