Short school skirts

[Kteeb1]

AIBU to think the reason given to me for girls not wearing skirts at school is worrying? So just been called by the school. Apparently all parents have been because girls skirts are very short and it's against school policy. I can only assume the little tyke (13) is rolling her school skirt up because it's not short when she leaves the house and ill sort it when she gets in, but I am concerned with what the female teacher said to me. The reason why the girls skirts shouldn't be short is because male teachers and other boys may feel uncomfortable. Also out of school grounds the girls might be attacked. And young girls must learn to protect their dignity. I have no problem with a uniform and following it, but if male teachers are uncomfortable in seeing a 13 year old with a short skirt, should they really be teaching? And why are we saying what a person wears means they may be attacked. I did ask if any girls had been attacked and I didn't get an answer. I just think it's a really bad message that girls have to change what they wear for those reasons.

As an aside, I discovered DD is wearing her PE skort under her rolled up kilt 🤦🏻‍♀️

So, she's got the bulky rolled up waistband of her kilt plus the skort waistband plus the skirt part of the skirt.... she's about twice as bulky round the hip area as she is naturally!!

@WestendVBroadway

I've only just seen your picture but the skirt length you showed is pretty much the standard length of most school skirts in the UK. What's being discussed here is not that sort of skirt length, they are sitting at the level where your leg becomes bum meaning everyone sees bum when you move. No-one is objecting to a just over the knee skirt I don't think.

Why can't girls just have trousers as uniform in winter and the option of knee lenth floaty skirts that are hard to roll up in summer?

@SoupDragon

As an aside, I discovered DD is wearing her PE skort under her rolled up kilt 🤦🏻‍♀️

So, she's got the bulky rolled up waistband of her kilt plus the skort waistband plus the skirt part of the skirt.... she's about twice as bulky round the hip area as she is naturally!!

My DD was doing the same! I’ve now bought her those cycling shorts to wear underneath.

I hate the fact that she rolls up her skirt - you can obviously see it too - we’ve talked about unwanted attention etc… but she’s 15 and that’s what all her friends do.

Her younger sister also has a short skirt but that’s only because she’s so tall.

I bought her shorts too!

@AuntieStella

The school shouid not be employing male teachers they think are harrassing female pupils (by gaze or action). What the girl is wearing doesn't come in to it - men who are disturbed by normal teenage behaviour shouid not be in schools.

And the school should be teaching boys not to be creeps. And never assume that creep behaviour is normal/acceptable and that it is controlled only by controlling girls, not the perpetrators

Oh come on.

Creepy behaviour/ harassment would involve making an effort to see up the skirt. If the skirt involved is so short that arses/thongs/pants are being displayed while the girls are making NORMAL movements then those who choose to wear the skirt are either deliberately choosing to or wilfully blind to the risk of exposing areas of the body that society considers to have sexual connotations. Don't try and impute intentions that aren't there.

I think DD's school skirt came in 3 lengths. She needed the longest but I compromised and bought the middle one.

@AuntieStella

The school shouid not be employing male teachers they think are harrassing female pupils (by gaze or action). What the girl is wearing doesn't come in to it - men who are disturbed by normal teenage behaviour shouid not be in schools.

And the school should be teaching boys not to be creeps. And never assume that creep behaviour is normal/acceptable and that it is controlled only by controlling girls, not the perpetrators

You see, this is the problem - men are accused of “harassing by gaze” when they literally can’t avoid seeing semi naked girls. That’s why they feel uncomfortable. They’re not feeling uncomfortable because they’re overwhelmed with sexual arousal . They’re uncomfortable because they know that unless they actually wear a blindfold, they’ll get an eyeful of breast/buttock, and then they’ll be accused of perving. Women feel slightly less uncomfortable because we know we’re less likely to be accused of deliberate gazing.

Women would be front of the queue to complain if males were wearing short or skin tight shorts in front of them/their DD's in a environment like school or work.

If the girls are doing it to attract attention, it seems somewhat bizarre to then say the boys/men shouldn't be paying any attention.

Why does any girl or woman think anyone will take her seriously when she’s walking around with her arse hanging out?
It starts from the time a child is potty trained: boys’ pants everything is covered, girls’ pants not so much.
Swimsuits are the same, why is it ok for so many little girls at the swimming pool or beach to have a cheek popping out? You never see little boys swimsuits with that problem.
So little boys from infancy see girls with their arses out and treat them as less important.
Can we teach our girls nobody wants to see your arse? If you want to be taken seriously, keep it covered!
Schools need to toughen up and teach girls directly how important it is to be dressed appropriately, or take the easy way out as they none of them have a spare minute, just ban the skirts.

These are their role models (just one example) so why are we surprised school girls want to dress this way?

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9699701/Ciara-black-wows-plunging-miniskirt-stiletto-lace-heels-reclaimed-pre-baby-weight.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ico=taboola_feed

“You see, this is the problem - men are accused of “harassing by gaze” when they literally can’t avoid seeing semi naked girls. That’s why they feel uncomfortable. They’re not feeling uncomfortable because they’re overwhelmed with sexual arousal . They’re uncomfortable because they know that unless they actually wear a blindfold, they’ll get an eyeful of breast/buttock, and then they’ll be accused of perving.
Women feel slightly less uncomfortable because we know we’re less likely to be accused of deliberate gazing.”

Thoroughly agree with Bagamoyo here - getting a little fed up of the male teacher bashing when it comes to this issue. Everyone should be comfortable in their workplace and male teachers should not have the fear of potential sexual harassment allegations hanging over them while teaching girls dressed in inappropriate revealing clothing. They can’t very well teach them with their eyes closed can they? It’s just a massive bloody minefield and detracts from the teaching having to sort out uniform issues constantly.

A male teacher may well be too afraid of calling out a pupil on a tiny skirt for fear of reprisals and allegations, from pupils and potentially from parents. Rightly so all allegations need to be treated seriously and investigated, so where does this leave the teacher? And the school? Why is semi-nudity in the classroom even an issue? I completely understand why schools remove
themselves from this circus and insisting on trousers for all.

Someone mentioned “normal teenage behaviour”. Possibly normal, but still needs addressing and dealing with to keep everyone safe and happy in what is after all, a learning environment and not a bar or club. Appropriate dress for the occasion, that’s all it is.

"Normalised" teenage behaviour. By the media, pornography etc.

Doesn't make it right.

As a teacher I see this all the time- tiny skirts with arses, knickers, tight gussets, sanitary pad wings etc all on display. Some girls are blithely unaware, others are clearly hideously uncomfortable -constantly twitching/ rearranging said tiny skirt. For me the biggest issue is the restriction on girls’ movement, freedom and confidence. Try teaching a drama lesson where most of the girls in the room can’t bend over or sit on the floor without displaying their underwear and private parts. We are allowing our daughters to perpetuate restrictive fashion and sexual trends that keep them uncomfortable and disadvantaged just as much as the old corsets, high heeled shoes and crinolines did. And any teacher trying to challenge/ change this is accused or perversion/ sexism/ discrimination etc. Makes me despair …

So can we help pp with her letter? I'd be really happy to look at a draft but don't really have time to start one.

Happy to help, if PP outlines the main points she wishes to get across, we can work down the list and write some paragraphs she can review.

The current secondary school skirt fashion round here is very odd....

shirt and jumper tucked into the skirt and skirt pulled up high... I don't knwo what they think they look like 😂 they don't wear them particularly short though!

They shouldn't be rolling them up. There is a uniform policy and they need to look smart. A short skirt is not smart and I can understand why the teachers are uncomfortable. The way kids talk nowadays if they ask them to sort their skirt out the child will just say "you shouldn't be looking sir" and then there goes a long gossip of a teacher looking at girls which goes around the school.

In my opinion, and it's not going to be a popular one. All students should wear trousers in winter and shorts or trousers in the warmer months. Both girls and boys. But I will get flamed for them not having a choice. But if you abuse the policy then there should be consequences. I went to an all girls school and the girls pulled this crap all the time. The male teachers couldn't say anything in the end or the girls would try and embarrass them by saying they re wrong for looking.

I don't think girls should be able to wear very short skirts to school, just as I don't think boys should be able to go around in, say, a school shirt unbuttoned to their navel. However, I think the school are very wrong for citing the reasons they have. It's victim blaming and it's ridiculous. The message should be about looking smart and sticking to the school uniform code.

If the dress code is, for example, a hemline 5cm above or below the knee for a skirt (this is what it was 20 years ago when I was at school), and your daughter's skirt doesn't fit within those guidelines, all the school need to be saying is, 'Skirts must remain within the dress code regulations, which is a hemline 5cm above or below the knee.' And if they want to elaborate on why a dress code is needed: 'We have a school dress code so that pupils look smart.'

If I were your daughter's parent, I think I would be contacting the school to say something along those lines, i.e. that you agree with the need for regulation skirts, but that you think they seriously need to reconsider what reasons they're giving when they phone parents.

I'm a female teacher. It's pretty unpleasant when girls are sat and you can see their knickers. Or one called me over the day, I thought to ask for help, but no she wanted me to pick her pen up because her skirt was too short for her to do it. I was unimpressed

I also had to take another look at a couple of girls leaving school the other day as for a second I thought they had no skirt on at all. Turned out it was just they were shorter than their blazers...

I think its OK to have a policy of no short skirts because other people don't want to see your arse.

I feel sorry for the male teachers who have to try and enforce these rules and are often accused of being a pervert for even noticing a skirt short enough to see your underwear.

This has been going on since I was at school (over 20 years ago), I would leave the house with a just above the knee skirt and roll it up once at the bus stop so my Mum wouldn't see! Don't ask me why though as I don't remember!

I understand that for everyone else it may be uncomfortable (male and female) to see what you aren't expecting to BUT we should not be holding females clothing responsible for male behaviour, EVER!

[quote CrabbyCat]@PolkadotSloth it's what pretty much all the girls at our local secondary school wear. It's not so bad in winter when they combine it with opaque tights, but in summer you see a lot more than seems necessary driving though town and pick up.

It's one of the reasons I really don't get school uniform. I grew up overseas, and without a uniform left to our own devices we all wore jeans. From what I can tell that's still what kids overseas wear, and it seems a lot easier than perpetual arguments over skirt length.[/quote]
I absolutely agree. Most of my schools had no uniform and on balance it was far better. Anybody coming to school in a skirt like that would have been ridiculed and not done it again.