To start counting my commuting time into my weekly hours at work?

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

Hear me out before you vote I know on paper it's probably YABU but I have my reasons.

My department has been 100% home based since 20 March 2020 due to covid. As of April this year, my employer has formally introduced a "work when, where and how you like" policy. Basically, as long as you do your work, great. Directors are leaving it to Department Managers to work out how that looks/works for their individual teams.

My work and that of everyone on my team, can and is being done 100% remotely. Any face to face / office based working is done on a want rather than need basis.

I currently split my 37.5 hours as:- Mon-Fri I work 8.15-2.45, then I do the school run. I then have 5 hours still to do, and I do these split across Mon-Fri any days/times after the school run that works for me and my family. I take into account all meetings and have never declined one due to the way I work my hours. My manager is completely happy with how I work.

If and when I choose to go into the office I count my commute within that. So I still work on the hours above. Obviously if anything pressing is needed, I dont think "well I have done my 37.5 so I'm not doing any more" I just work til the task is done.

Management are now introducing a fortnightly face to face meeting (still tbc due to outbreaks).

AIBU to keep counting my commuting time as work? Especially on days where I am asked to travel into the office at a random time (say 11am) for 1.5hrs?

With us, it depends what is listed as your main place as work in your contract. This will either be an office location or your home. (Currently, it will be as listed in your pre-covid contract; there are noises about allowing reviews before they reopen the offices, so you can confirm your preference to go back into the office or become an official home worker, if suitable for your role and your director agrees.)

If you are asked to work at a different site than your main site, you can claim expenses for travel that is over your usual commute. So I can claim for home to London, but not home to Reading office, which is my main work location, even though I have been there since last March. But you claim the mileage or train ticket, not the time.

We need a train ticket or petrol receipt to claim it as expenses.

If your contract is now to wfh and you are asked to come to the office then yes it makes sense to count it as work time. Just like you would if you were let’s say going to see a client.

If your contract doesn’t specify WFH as a default position, the. You can’t do that.

I don’t think any company has thought that very well yet.

You're not being unreasonable. Your working practices have changed and you no longer work specifically from the office.

I work from home but, pre-covid spent much of my time on the road. When I had to go into the office I left home at 4am-ish, returning home at about 9pm. It's a hell of a commute but, the following day, nobody contacts me as I'm not available.

I would say that any time travelling during your working hours you don't need to 'make up' surely.

Just as any hours you might do extra to for example get somewhere for 9am (if that's your start time) you wouldn't claim as overtime!

I think perhaps if you'd mentioned earlier that it was for a meeting in the middle of the day, the responses might have been more positive?

If you’re working during the commute and it’s a ‘work any time’ policy then I don’t see a problem. Of course, if you’re not working then you can’t claim it.

So sitting on the train reading the paper is counted as work? Hahaha! That is a massive cheek. Did it count in the past?

@Eilethya

It's shit like this that will push the hand of employers to bring the office workforce back from WFH.

No. Commuting time is not work time. What about people who work in roles that aren't office based? How would that go down?

In my industry, when people have a job that isn’t office based, then going to the office is part of their working hours. I mean that has been the case for donkeys years.

So it would actually support the OP’s approach

I've worked flexible hours for years. If I'm told I need to be in one of the offices on a certain day I go there first and the commute is not paid time. But if I've already started working from home and I'm asked to be at an office the same day then the travel is on company time. Same if I'm already at one location and need to go to another.

The "does it matter if you get the work done" argument is a bit spurious as well. If someone is paid for 37.5 hours a week and routinely finished the work in 30, they shouldn't just be dossing for the other 7.5 hours. they should make their manager aware that, actually, they have capacity to do more. If there genuinely is no more work to be done, that's a different situation.

@fishonabicycle

So sitting on the train reading the paper is counted as work? Hahaha! That is a massive cheek. Did it count in the past?

Yes in the past it did count as part of your working hours if you didn’t work in the office or had to go to another office for example.

The OP is basically talking about them asking to come to a different place of work (hers being home now) so it should be part of her working hours.
This is only true IF her job is described as only wfh though. If the company ask her to work from the office 2 days a week, then that can’t apply.
Going for a just a meeting would fall into that category if ‘work’ imho because her place of work is considered home.

Some HR departments will have a lot of fun sorting all that out.

Lot of very rigid thinking here, most posts seem to be "I can't claim my commute as work time, so obviously you can't either".
And they don't grasp that if you usual work place is now home, then being asked to travel to the office is not a regular work commute.

Nope, you are being unreasonable and a CF to boot.

I would 100% count travel in to the office for a meeting in the middle of the day as part of my working hours. It's travel to a meeting.

There you go again. Getting the best from people is by treating them like grown ups and focusing on their output, not getting fixated on the hours they spend at their desk. It’s an impossibly outdated way of managing people
It's not fixation, it's an inevitable outcome. Someone who comes in at 9, works at their desk with no distraction until 5pm, with 1/2 h lunch can be expected to achieve more at the end of the day than someone who works from 8:15 to 2:45, probably takes lunch during that time, spends time browsing sites, has to interrupt whatever they are doing to pick up their kids, and work afterwards, with the distraction of kids in the background.

Some flexibility is great. It leaves staff less stressed and more committed, but it comes a point where no matter your claim of efficiency, you are never going to be as good as someone who doesn't see working hours as something that just fit around their personal life.

School children - could they regard they travel in to school as “technically” being at school? Ie of school finishes at 3.30pm those with half hour to get home for example, leave at 4pm?

Nursery hours - how would you feel if they cut hours to allow for paid employee travel time?

I could go on. And on.

Leave at 3pm not 4

You wouldn’t be happy if you had a ten minute commute and a colleague had 2 hours and counted it as work time , travel wasn’t counted pre covid so why should it now?

@vivainsomnia

I am pondering getting a new job and part of their policy in the new working world is that commuting can be counted as working hours if you are actually working - I think.its reasonable if you are actually working Indeed because they make it clear. OP's company hasn't and OP clearly doesn't feel comfortable asking her manager directly, so it might not be so back or white.

Saying that, OP's company is clearly very laid back and not so concerned about getting the most out of people. 37.5 hours including time to be on the internet unlimited, watching football, coming and going. Let's just hope it's not the NHS of local governement!

iv worked in retail since i left school and this tread is mind boggling , i obviously went badly wrong all those years ago when i thought office work would be boring lol , sitting about on the internet , fitting in school runs in between working from home and now wanting to get paid for a commute to the office , beggars belief it really does

@Blossomtoes

OP's company is clearly very laid back and not so concerned about getting the most out of people

There you go again. Getting the best from people is by treating them like grown ups and focusing on their output, not getting fixated on the hours they spend at their desk. It’s an impossibly outdated way of managing people.

My employer gets excellent results out of its staff because it doesnt micromanage every element of our job or expect us to sit in an office til 6pm every Friday "just because".

My work is very intensive and time sensitive. It is the starting point for a lot of other people work (I.e I must complete mine, and to an excellent standard), in order for other people to do what they need to do.

Failure to complete my tasks on time, or well, would be noticed immediately. I enjoy my work, and I enjoy the fact that my employers dont care if I browse the internet (on my own device) while waiting for reports to upload for example.

When everyone was office based there was definetly times when staff weren't 100% productive (water cooler/catch up with people when they get back from holidays etc).

Theres a significant amount of WFH mumsnetters who do non work stuff during their working day. There are many threads on it (none of which bar this one were started by me!).

@UserAtRandom

You also seem to be working for 6.5 hours every day, without a break. Is this correct?

I noticed this as well, this is not allowed AFAIK, even if you genuinely don’t have a break and eat in front of your computer. Realistically, you’ll take 30min anyway (bathroom break, coffee, prepare lunch and clean up afterwards, etc).

Ok so your employer is totally cool with everything
So I don’t get why AIBU?

Are you concerned your not?
Has someone said you are unreasonable?

UABU
If for argument sake you start at 9 , at a work place , you should get there at around 8.45 , hang up your coat, get a coffee ,go to the loo etc ready to start at 9 , not get there at 9 then do these things , the same goes with travel .
If you start at 9 and you have a 2 hour drive then you set off by say 6.45 dive , arrive , loo, coat , coffee and start at the correct time of 9

@UserAtRandom

The "does it matter if you get the work done" argument is a bit spurious as well. If someone is paid for 37.5 hours a week and routinely finished the work in 30, they shouldn't just be dossing for the other 7.5 hours. they should make their manager aware that, actually, they have capacity to do more. If there genuinely is no more work to be done, that's a different situation.

I do not get all my work done in 30 hours a week. Even on a quiet week.

Whichever way you cook it commuting time is not work