To start counting my commuting time into my weekly hours at work?

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

Hear me out before you vote I know on paper it's probably YABU but I have my reasons.

My department has been 100% home based since 20 March 2020 due to covid. As of April this year, my employer has formally introduced a "work when, where and how you like" policy. Basically, as long as you do your work, great. Directors are leaving it to Department Managers to work out how that looks/works for their individual teams.

My work and that of everyone on my team, can and is being done 100% remotely. Any face to face / office based working is done on a want rather than need basis.

I currently split my 37.5 hours as:- Mon-Fri I work 8.15-2.45, then I do the school run. I then have 5 hours still to do, and I do these split across Mon-Fri any days/times after the school run that works for me and my family. I take into account all meetings and have never declined one due to the way I work my hours. My manager is completely happy with how I work.

If and when I choose to go into the office I count my commute within that. So I still work on the hours above. Obviously if anything pressing is needed, I dont think "well I have done my 37.5 so I'm not doing any more" I just work til the task is done.

Management are now introducing a fortnightly face to face meeting (still tbc due to outbreaks).

AIBU to keep counting my commuting time as work? Especially on days where I am asked to travel into the office at a random time (say 11am) for 1.5hrs?

* You also seem to be working for 6.5 hours every day, without a break. Is this correct?*

Non work related internet usage is absolutely fine
Given prolific posting during the hours
I don’t think we need to get out the violins re breaks!

But if I've already started working from home and I'm asked to be at an office the same day then the travel is on company time. Same if I'm already at one location and need to go to another

It comes down to reasonability. Someone who is sitting in front of the computer every day at 7am but on some days has to go to the office for 9am, and do so for 1/2h on the train reading reports ahead of meetings, would have a good reason to claim it as working time.

This is very different to someone their colleague who normally start work at 9am, start work at 7am exceptionally for 15mns, then travels for 90 minutes watching netflix on the train and claims it as working hours.

Someone who comes in at 9, works at their desk with no distraction until 5pm, with 1/2 h lunch

How many 100% office based staff can genuinely say that they are 100% efficient during these set hours? No non work conversations with a colleague? No stopping to look at someone's baby pics or take part in some sweepstake that's taking place that week?

someone who works from 8:15 to 2:45, probably takes lunch during that time

I grab an apple and a cereal bar from the kitchen around noon and eat them at my desk. I even make a hot flask of tea before I log on at 8.15 which lasts me all day (mainly because I never finish a cup before it goes cold).

Spends time browsing sites

I post on Mumsnet as and when I have chance or reach a point where I can pause, if I feel I want to.

has to interrupt whatever they are doing to pick up their kids

Incorrect. I take my allocated 30 mins lunch break to do the school run.

And work afterwards, with the distraction of kids in the background

Lots of people work into the evening to pick up flexible working. My kids do not distract me - I have an office I sit in at home to work. We spend a little time together after the school run, then they know I go back to work. As I said upthread I only have to complete 5 hours of work per week while they are home (though I do more as needed). My husband is home 45mins after we get in from school. My children do not interfere with the hours I work from home.

I’d love to know OP if you’d be happy if teachers suddenly started reducing hours substantially in the your children’s classroom to take account of their travel time?

Presumably fine? As long as they managed to get through the national curriculum (but absolutely nothing else, because… well, that’s not their contracted job is , is it?!)

@Sometimesfraught82

School children - could they regard they travel in to school as “technically” being at school? Ie of school finishes at 3.30pm those with half hour to get home for example, leave at 4pm?

Nursery hours - how would you feel if they cut hours to allow for paid employee travel time?

I could go on. And on.

If you want to be pedantic and bring up scenarios completely at odds with the one I describe.

YABU very unfair on those who live closer to work and would therefore be putting in a longer day of work

@Sometimesfraught82

* You also seem to be working for 6.5 hours every day, without a break. Is this correct?*

Non work related internet usage is absolutely fine
Given prolific posting during the hours
I don’t think we need to get out the violins re breaks!

Exactly.

Ok so your employer is totally cool with everything.So I don’t get why AIBU? Are you concerned your not?Has someone said you are unreasonable?
This exactly. I've asked twice if not three times already when you are not asking your boss and you haven't responded.

If you are such a fantastic employee who delivers everything on time to excellent quality, if your manager rates you highly, thinks you couldn't do anymore than you already are. If they really don't care at all whether you do your contracted hours or not as long as you achieve your set goals, why are you even counting the hours at all?

And if they don't care about the hours but only the output, why are they even mentioned in your contract?

If you want to be pedantic and bring up scenarios completely at odds with the one I describe.

Yes. As I thought.

Hmm, I have mixed views on this. I used to do home visits as part of my role and if I say booked one in for the start of the day, then time spent travelling to the home was work time. Even if that journey was the same length of time as the one I would take to the office. Then the journey to the office after the visit was also work time. So my only commute on my time would be my journey home. There were variations on that. But that’s a general example.

I have wfh full time for 3 years now. When we occasionally all meet up then yes travel time is counted as work. So I do kind of get your point.

@vivainsomnia

Ok so your employer is totally cool with everything.So I don’t get why AIBU? Are you concerned your not?Has someone said you are unreasonable? This exactly. I've asked twice if not three times already when you are not asking your boss and you haven't responded.

If you are such a fantastic employee who delivers everything on time to excellent quality, if your manager rates you highly, thinks you couldn't do anymore than you already are. If they really don't care at all whether you do your contracted hours or not as long as you achieve your set goals, why are you even counting the hours at all?

And if they don't care about the hours but only the output, why are they even mentioned in your contract?

The OP won’t respond to this

You’re cool with it
Your employer is cool with it
So why the AIBU?

I think having read all the responses that @LittleOwl153 has it. Since your employer announced their new policy, your "usual place of work" has now changed to your home. If you have to go into the office, this is no longer a commute - it's travel to an "offsite" as if you were visiting a client, or another office in your organisation. When you frame it that way, it falls neatly into place that your travel to and from the office is work time.

I'd double check that with your manager that since the implementation of the new policy, your "usual place of work" is now your home, not the office, and that travel to the office is like travelling to another company location. Sounds like she'll agree that is now the case, no issues.

@copperpotsalot

YABU very unfair on those who live closer to work and would therefore be putting in a longer day of work

I dont understand your point here.

If me and colleague B are both required to attend the office for 1.5 hours tomorrow at 11am, and B has a two hour drive in, then I would expect they would do the same as me - it's a working day. 2 hours of it there and 2 hours back need to be used of that working day to attend a mandated work meeting held in the office in the middle of the working day. If they were at home (as they have been 100% for over a year), and could attend on teams, they could use that 4h instead working. But the employer has decided that, instead, they must spend 4 h in a car to do the meeting face to face. That's not B's fault. Why should they have to then add in another 4 hours of working from home?

Complete piss take .

In the end, no-one can advise you because we don't know what your manager really thinks of you. To be fair, you could indeed be a super efficient, committed, dedicated, accurate worker who manages your role with brilliance and your manager indeed really couldn't care less what hours your do, and whether you commute during your working time.

If that's the case, good on you. You have absolutely nothing to be concerned about.

You’re cool with it
Your employer is cool with it
So why the AIBU?

Sorry - in getting caught up responding to the posters who have made incorrect assumptions and attempting to clarify my situation more.

My employer has said they just want the work done. They dont care how, where etc.

I ask AIBU specifically because it is a matter which could become a debatable scenario as we move culturally from office based presenteeism to newer flexible ways of working.

Plus my workplace has only recently introduced the mandated fortnightly face to face so that has made me consider the situation in closer detail.

Have you had a change of contract in terms of your place of work? We now have a flex policy and can work from home a lot, but our official place of work is still our office very intentionally so we can’t claim expenses for driving to the office (or try and argue that driving to work is part of office hours). I think YABVU to try and take a policy that offers you more flex and try to manipulate it to have even more benefit, but on the face of it legally it comes down to the above question. If your official place of work is now home, travel to the office is part of your work. If it hasn’t changed and your contractual place of work is still your office, then you can’t claim that travelling there is work.

And if they don't care about the hours but only the output, why are they even mentioned in your contract?

Presumably because it’s a standard employment contract. I suspect in a few years time hours will only be specified for jobs that demand attendance in a specific workplace like retail or hospitality. Lots of tech companies, particularly new start ups no longer specify hours in their contracts.

You’re never going to convince them @BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz. I’m so grateful not to have managed or been managed by these people.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

You’re cool with it Your employer is cool with it So why the AIBU?

Sorry - in getting caught up responding to the posters who have made incorrect assumptions and attempting to clarify my situation more.

My employer has said they just want the work done. They dont care how, where etc.

I ask AIBU specifically because it is a matter which could become a debatable scenario as we move culturally from office based presenteeism to newer flexible ways of working.

Plus my workplace has only recently introduced the mandated fortnightly face to face so that has made me consider the situation in closer detail.

Looks like going forward - perhaps not so chilled employer as you say.

Brace yourself OP!

Being occupied is a different issue.

I didn't realise that people with office jobs (not factories or time sheet based work) actually counted their 37.5 hours precisely and took precise lunch breaks (making sure to take appropriate breaks in accordance with working time conventions etc). Surely most people just make the odd cup of tea to leave their screen, grab a sandwich/take a walk and enter and leave roughly at roughly working hours..... By which I mean acting like adults and managers treating them as such.

If you are such a fantastic employee who delivers everything on time to excellent quality

I am a normal human being who works hard at my job and tries my best. I've had no complaints so far at all on the work I produce or the time I produce it in. My employer seems to think I do a good job. So great.

@Blossomtoes

And if they don't care about the hours but only the output, why are they even mentioned in your contract?

Presumably because it’s a standard employment contract. I suspect in a few years time hours will only be specified for jobs that demand attendance in a specific workplace like retail or hospitality. Lots of tech companies, particularly new start ups no longer specify hours in their contracts.

You’re never going to convince them @BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz. I’m so grateful not to have managed or been managed by these people.

Agree - this last year will spark a change in the way things are done.

Do you have a cleaner OP?

Ok if cleaner starts reducing cleaning time to take into account travel time?

Agree - this last year will spark a change in the way things are done.

You’re working on the basis that that change has already happened!

@Sometimesfraught82

Do you have a cleaner OP?

Ok if cleaner starts reducing cleaning time to take into account travel time?

Yes because clearly that's the situation I describe

Are you incapable of reading a thread?