To start counting my commuting time into my weekly hours at work?

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

Hear me out before you vote I know on paper it's probably YABU but I have my reasons.

My department has been 100% home based since 20 March 2020 due to covid. As of April this year, my employer has formally introduced a "work when, where and how you like" policy. Basically, as long as you do your work, great. Directors are leaving it to Department Managers to work out how that looks/works for their individual teams.

My work and that of everyone on my team, can and is being done 100% remotely. Any face to face / office based working is done on a want rather than need basis.

I currently split my 37.5 hours as:- Mon-Fri I work 8.15-2.45, then I do the school run. I then have 5 hours still to do, and I do these split across Mon-Fri any days/times after the school run that works for me and my family. I take into account all meetings and have never declined one due to the way I work my hours. My manager is completely happy with how I work.

If and when I choose to go into the office I count my commute within that. So I still work on the hours above. Obviously if anything pressing is needed, I dont think "well I have done my 37.5 so I'm not doing any more" I just work til the task is done.

Management are now introducing a fortnightly face to face meeting (still tbc due to outbreaks).

AIBU to keep counting my commuting time as work? Especially on days where I am asked to travel into the office at a random time (say 11am) for 1.5hrs?

I am pondering getting a new job and part of their policy in the new working world is that commuting can be counted as working hours if you are actually working - I think.its reasonable if you are actually working.
This has given everyone a brilliant chance to reset on how we did things previously and embrace a proper work life balance and not just go back to the old ways

I would consider that as theft

Honestly who cares as long as you're doing your job! Its about time we realised that employers don't own us, rather they employ us to do a job. If you can do your job perfectly well in less hours than your colleague then that's because you're more effective.

It's time we stop thinking of a presenteeism based culture as being better than a performance based one. Things don't change unless we change.

YANBU.

Counting your commuting time as working time is an excellent route to being sacked for fraud.

Hmmm… I think at the beginning and end of the day you don’t count commuting as you would have had to do it anyway of Covid hadn’t happened and for the most part, your company’s new policy leave your better off. It it’s in the middle of the day, I’d count it as work time as you’re not choosing to break off from your work and travel. I travel for work (in normal times) and travel at the beginning and end of the day doesn’t count to my hours but travel between appointments does.

@Sometimesfraught82

Flipping heck

Check out posting history over last year.

Is your employer also cool with mumsnet usage during your set hours?!

Yup.

Totally fine with employees using the internet for non work items throughout the working day.

Staff would often have the news sites open / check their Facebook etc during the working day.

Currently most staff and management (not me) are timing meetings around the EURO matches / making it known that the matches are on during their working hours.

I don't blame you for thinking it because it sort if makes sense. You include travel time to meetings within a normal working day, so why not when WFH. But when you were at work, you had to commute to get to your first starting point at an office somewhere. So somewhere during the day you commuted.

When you were working in the office you commuted 10 days over a two week period. When you started to WFH, I guess you didn't offer to work the extra hours you'd saved not commuting. You're now going to commute one day in a two week period. I think you should just be happy that 9 days you can save yourself time and money not commuting.

If your workplace is your base then you should not class your commute as working time. Any additiinal travel over and above that to your base can be claimed both in terms of time and fuel is how I would see it,

Working from home and this not needing to commute (as I do at present) is a bonus. If I need to or are asked to go into the office I cannot record my commute as working time, as I am only travelling to my base,

If yyou are completing all tasks needed in less time than you are contracted to work, shouldn’t you be asking for more work rather than looking for a loophole? We are regularly asked if anyone has any extra capacity.

What would you do at home if you ran out of work (on a regular basis)? Would you knock off an hour earlier? Work slower? Ask for more work?

Depends - if you were self-employed both the cost and time of your journey to a meeting in the office would be chargeable.

As an employee this time/cost is not and any payments to cover this as a paye/schedule E taxpayer would be taxable.

You could always ask HMRC

From memory, under hsawa you are legally required to take a minimum of a 30 minute break during the day. Also the maximum you can work without a break, from memory, is 6 hours. So although you work 6h30 from 8:15 - 2:45 only 6h of this counts, so 30h of your 37.5/week.

@AhNowTed

No of course commuting isn't work.

I'm shocked you're getting away with this.

You can't possibly say that. My commute is counted as work and I paid for it.

Commuting time is not work time.

Traveling to the office is not commuting, if your normal place of work is at home. I have it explicitly agreed that I normally work 100% from home. Whenever I travel to the office, I count my travel time as working time.

You’re obviously a very rigid manager @vivainsomnia and so you just don’t get this at all
I'm actually a very flexible manager but I do have a good flair for staff who take the mickey. I can't say with OP, doesn't know her, but her posts doesn't lead to believing she very well could be one of them.

I think your work needs a policy.

Where I work, travel time always counts over and above what you usually travel to get to your normal place of work. We have always had some homeworkers and they can count their travel time whenever they are asked to be at a face to face meeting. My usual place of work is our London office. It takes me an hour to get there. Sometimes I need to be in our Birmingham office. This trip takes four hours, so three count as working hours. I try to work on the train, but it is not always possible. My manager is a homeworker. It takes her three hours to get to the London office, so all three hours count as work time for her. Again, she will usually work on the train, but this is not technically necessary to comply with the policy (not to mention the confidentiality considerations).

If you are primarily a home worker, I do not think it is unreasonable to count a once-weekly commute as work time, especially when it is mandated that you be in the office by senior management, but I do think it would be best if your company developed a policy for this.

I used to work 9-5 at the office, then I did not count my travelling time. I changed to working entirely from home, doing the same job. If I need to go in I leave home at 9am, get there by 10.30am, do whatever I went in to do, and get in my car and go home as soon as I've finished whatever I went in for. The 2-3 hours I spend in the car, I'm paid for.

Add message | Report | Message posterBernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz Thu 17-Jun-21 15:11:14
ScissorsBike

When do you take your lunch break? That shouldn't be counted in your hours. 9-5 is 8 hours, but only counts as 7.5 hours as there is a mandatory unpaid half hour lunch break. Your 6 hour shift has the same (and I assume you take it), but then you need to be making up an additional 2.5 hours every week, on top of what you are currently doing.

I work 6.5 hours solid per day, totalling 32.5. I then pick up at least the extra 5 if not more in the evenings/late afternoons/odd Sunday morning etc.

You should check your employer's rules on breaks - we are not allowed to work more than six consecutive hours without a minimum of 20 minutes break, in line with the law on working time. If I submit my timesheet with more than six consecutive hours, it gets rejected.

If your employment contract states your place of work and contracted hours, then travel time will not be counted as working time unless your contract specifies this. I'm glad to be saving my 1.5 hour commute most days; on the one day I have to go in to the office I just see it as a blessing that I'm no longer having to do it every day!

At first I thought you were being a CF, OP, but I’ve thought about it now and here are my musings -

I took a job that is a 40 minute commute each way. My job starts at 10, so I leave at 9. That hour I leave for the commute is my time and nothing to do with my employer or my wages.

I often have to travel locally for my job. For example, I’ve spent 2 hours out of the office today, around 45 minutes of that is traveling. I see that as work time that I am paid for and don’t work an extra 45 minutes at my desk to compensate.

If I was working from home from 10am and had to attend a meeting at 11am that was half an hour away, I would leave my house at 10.30am to attend that meeting. I would see that as work time and would not work an extra half hour at my desk to compensate. If the meeting was at 10am, I would leave at 9.30am to get there on time but that half an hour would be my time, not paid for by my employer.

* Totally fine with employees using the internet for non work items throughout the working day.*

And it gets even better!

What’s the point of starting a thread in AIBU if you’re going to tell a load of porkies?!)

If its travel in the middle of the working day to go in for a meeting (so you were working before form home) then I think its OK to count it? If you're in for the day I wouldn't

You're in real 'cake and eat it' territory here if the office is your normal place of work.

I'd have a chat with your manager/HR first if I was you.

Commute times do not normally count as part of your work hours, unless your job involves driving or the drive is to somewhere further away from your normal office work (and even then it's usually in the additional time/miles that count.)

I am pondering getting a new job and part of their policy in the new working world is that commuting can be counted as working hours if you are actually working - I think.its reasonable if you are actually working
Indeed because they make it clear. OP's company hasn't and OP clearly doesn't feel comfortable asking her manager directly, so it might not be so back or white.

Saying that, OP's company is clearly very laid back and not so concerned about getting the most out of people. 37.5 hours including time to be on the internet unlimited, watching football, coming and going. Let's just hope it's not the NHS of local governement!

My contract is 40 hours per week but as a senior manager it is more about what I do than when.
I work from home now and don’t have a desk in the office any more, but I do get called in for meetings and training sessions, for these as they are generally at someone else’s convenience I count my travel time as work time. My day would look like this login at 8am and work until 10, pack up and travel to office for 11, work in office for 3 hours. (7 hours worked) Take my lunch break, this will include driving home but as I am out and about I will usually add in an errand as well. Back home catch up on emails and do more work for a couple of hours at least

If I am asked to do a whole day then I don’t count my commute as I fall back to my old working pattern.

With my wfh team I try to use their time productively and not call them in for short periods, if I do then I would count travel time as working, but again if it was for a full day I would expect them in for at least 7.5 hours

Commuting isn't work time. Dp gets travel time when he goes to head office but that's on another continent.

OP's company is clearly very laid back and not so concerned about getting the most out of people

There you go again. Getting the best from people is by treating them like grown ups and focusing on their output, not getting fixated on the hours they spend at their desk. It’s an impossibly outdated way of managing people.

It's shit like this that will push the hand of employers to bring the office workforce back from WFH.

No. Commuting time is not work time. What about people who work in roles that aren't office based? How would that go down?