To start counting my commuting time into my weekly hours at work?

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

Hear me out before you vote I know on paper it's probably YABU but I have my reasons.

My department has been 100% home based since 20 March 2020 due to covid. As of April this year, my employer has formally introduced a "work when, where and how you like" policy. Basically, as long as you do your work, great. Directors are leaving it to Department Managers to work out how that looks/works for their individual teams.

My work and that of everyone on my team, can and is being done 100% remotely. Any face to face / office based working is done on a want rather than need basis.

I currently split my 37.5 hours as:- Mon-Fri I work 8.15-2.45, then I do the school run. I then have 5 hours still to do, and I do these split across Mon-Fri any days/times after the school run that works for me and my family. I take into account all meetings and have never declined one due to the way I work my hours. My manager is completely happy with how I work.

If and when I choose to go into the office I count my commute within that. So I still work on the hours above. Obviously if anything pressing is needed, I dont think "well I have done my 37.5 so I'm not doing any more" I just work til the task is done.

Management are now introducing a fortnightly face to face meeting (still tbc due to outbreaks).

AIBU to keep counting my commuting time as work? Especially on days where I am asked to travel into the office at a random time (say 11am) for 1.5hrs?

Did you get travelling time before Covid?
If so, YANBU.
Otherwise, of course YABU and adding to the irritation that many employers are starting to feel about those happy enough to sit at home all day, but less so when getting back to normality is mooted.

I can't see the justification for this at all.
YABU

@sashagabadon

I’ve just been on a all staff zoom where loads of wfh since March 2020 staff are similarly moaning in a similar fashion. It is deeply irritating and actually disrespectful to all the staff, of which I am one, that has been coming into work every single day.

Yep. It's also bizarre. They knew how far away from the office they lived when they took the job and they (presumably) were perfectly able to manage the journey pre-Covid. Why is returning to the status-quo so unfair?

I wouldn't start nitpicking over this when you have such a flexible employer. Travel from home to work has never been work time unless actual work is being done on the commute.

If your regular place of work is now counted as your home, then yes, I would.

My old employers would have covered my costs too.

yabu......can i be paid for the hours stuck on the motorway on my commute? no

would set a precedent that everyone would want

I mean...I count any hours I occasionally travel into the office as part of my working day, because I regularly work 60 hour weeks or more, I often talk to Asia v early in the morning from home so would come to the office mid-morning, and was already WFH part-time before covid. I don't count hours at work or not at work so I wouldn't do a 3 hour round-trip commute for a meeting and think "oh, I owe my employers an extra 3 hours tonight". I think this would only take the piss if you were a real jobsworth and cutting off your hours at 37.5 hours, while also counting commuting time into that - this is why generally travelling to a fixed place of work isn't counted as working hours.

That being said, I think now that you have a new work policy of "work where you can", you need to clarify how travel time fits into work hours. I do think we are entering a new world where managers need to recognise that if people are commuting again, the travel is being done in hours where people have previously been working while WFH. I can't get to my desk before 8.30am or stay after 6pm - but WFH I can (and have been) working more hours that have been reclaimed from the commute.

What?

When do you take your lunch break? That shouldn't be counted in your hours. 9-5 is 8 hours, but only counts as 7.5 hours as there is a mandatory unpaid half hour lunch break. Your 6 hour shift has the same (and I assume you take it), but then you need to be making up an additional 2.5 hours every week, on top of what you are currently doing.

It depends.

If your contract either now or will in the future state your normal place of work as your home - then you could argue that you can include any commute to an office as part of your working hours, similar to when you would visit a client or go to another regional office for instance.

Although if your role really is flexible so you could work from the office but you choose to work from home then no I wouldn’t think to include the odd couple of hours commute a month into my working hours.

You could argue it both ways but really, I think that the majority of people would not include the occasional commute into their working day. It seems very cheeky fuckery

Meh I always think the amount of hours you do isn’t very important once you get your work done ! Nobody is even keeping tabs on it so who cares - I’d keep at it

Brazen CF.

"work when, where and how you like" policy sounds great but raises some policy issues.
If your work place is home, then if you are asked to go in for a meeting (rather than choose to just pop into the office) then you could include travel time in your work day (and claim travel expenses). But you're not a designated home worker, so it would be wrong to count your commute as part of your contracted hours/claim expenses. The only people who can fully answer the question for your particular situation are your manager and/or HR dept.

I figured this would go this way

My employer does not track/ask us to report working hours.

Working ft at home I do at least my 37.5 hours (6.5 set hours per day plus at least the additional 5 split across afternoons/evenings etc). I work more as I need to.

When I was working ft in the office I of course didnt include or expect to include my commute in the working hours.

My thinking is, if work ask us to come into the office for 1.5hrs each fortnight, to do something that we can all do from home (and therefore not lose time commuting), surely the travel in should count?

If they rota us in for a full day etc then I wouldnt think to include the commute. But they wont do that as they are specifically asking us to stay away as much as possible (the 1.5 hr fortnightly seems to be a step towards compromising for those of us who would like more face to face).

If you’re working home, then going into the office mid morning for a meeting, I think you can include it,

However, if it’s before and after your main working day, then you can’t.

@ScissorsBike

When do you take your lunch break? That shouldn't be counted in your hours. 9-5 is 8 hours, but only counts as 7.5 hours as there is a mandatory unpaid half hour lunch break. Your 6 hour shift has the same (and I assume you take it), but then you need to be making up an additional 2.5 hours every week, on top of what you are currently doing.

I work 6.5 hours solid per day, totalling 32.5. I then pick up at least the extra 5 if not more in the evenings/late afternoons/odd Sunday morning etc.

Nothing you’ve said justifies why your employer should pay you for your commute.

You’re choosing to work from the office. You presumably worked from the office pre covid so it was part of the conditions of the job,

YABMASSIVELYU

I think it depends but my view is probably coloured by how I work.

Currently we are all WFH but previously I'd have to attend meetings all over the county at various times. So I might start my day in the office at 9am but then have to be at Xtown at 11am. On my timesheet I'd put that I started at 9 and finished at 5. I wouldn't have taken out the travel time out of the day.

If my meeting was at 9 at Xtown then I wouldn't include my commute as my hours, as my day would start when I arrived for that meeting.

In your case, your base of work is your home. If you had to go into the office at the start of the day, then no, you shouldn't be including that in your working hours, but if they are asking you to go in at 11am or whatever, then I think it's reasonable to assume that your commute is part of your work day as you're already part way through it.

But you're not working 6.5 set hours a day, as I assume you have a lunch break. That doesn't count towards hours (legally)

This is nuts - of course YABU.

Under your method, if you decided to move another hour away from the office your employer would lose 2 hours of productive work per day. You must be able to see that's just a nonsense idea.

If you think it’s something you can do from home then argue for that. Unless it’s stated in your contract that you are now a home worker and will be compensated for any commenting then I don’t think you can really make this argument.

For now it is perfectly legal for an employer to say that you need to be in the office for so and so meeting and they don’t have to compensate you for it. If you want them to you need to tell your HR.

It sounds like in your job you just need to get the work done, rather than sit there for 25 hours or whatever? In which case if you can get it all done and count in your commuting hours then fine, if not then it won’t work.

@Standrewsschool

If you’re working home, then going into the office mid morning for a meeting, I think you can include it,

However, if it’s before and after your main working day, then you can’t.

Yes its mid - day.

Wfh I log on at 8.15 after the school run. I log off at 2.45 to do the pick up. I then usually log back in 3.30-6pm or a variation on these hours as needed (always at least 5 hours per week done after the schoolrun/weekends).

If I went into the office I would arrive around 8.50am (after doing the school run) and be able to work til 2pm when I leave to get back to the school in time (unless a pre booked meeting in which case I book DC into childcare after school).

I agree with @sunflowerstory though. Let’s say one of your colleagues chose to go into the office every single day and the commute was an hour each way. Should they be allowed to count this as working? That brings 37.5 hours to 27.5 hours immediately. I’m sure you can understand why an employer can’t accept that.

I’m not a jobsworth and I think flexible working is good but you can’t take the piss.

If I went into the office for full days/full weeks of course I wouldn't include the commuting even I can agree that is taking the piss.