To start counting my commuting time into my weekly hours at work?

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

Hear me out before you vote I know on paper it's probably YABU but I have my reasons.

My department has been 100% home based since 20 March 2020 due to covid. As of April this year, my employer has formally introduced a "work when, where and how you like" policy. Basically, as long as you do your work, great. Directors are leaving it to Department Managers to work out how that looks/works for their individual teams.

My work and that of everyone on my team, can and is being done 100% remotely. Any face to face / office based working is done on a want rather than need basis.

I currently split my 37.5 hours as:- Mon-Fri I work 8.15-2.45, then I do the school run. I then have 5 hours still to do, and I do these split across Mon-Fri any days/times after the school run that works for me and my family. I take into account all meetings and have never declined one due to the way I work my hours. My manager is completely happy with how I work.

If and when I choose to go into the office I count my commute within that. So I still work on the hours above. Obviously if anything pressing is needed, I dont think "well I have done my 37.5 so I'm not doing any more" I just work til the task is done.

Management are now introducing a fortnightly face to face meeting (still tbc due to outbreaks).

AIBU to keep counting my commuting time as work? Especially on days where I am asked to travel into the office at a random time (say 11am) for 1.5hrs?

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

Can you not see the contradiction here? Many people have to attend the office full time to do work that they could do from home, but you think they'd be taking the piss

Yes but my discussion is coming from a point of (and only relevant) to people who are and have been 100% home based.

My situation is completely different to someone who has to be on site to do their job.

Your role isn't contractually wfh, it's choice to wfh. This is significant.

If choice, any commute is yours to bear unless told otherwise.

If a meeting is middle of the day, it's your choice how to organise to get your required hours, allowing for the commute, when you're opting to wfh.

My advice, stay under the radar if you're including the commute currently.
If it's raised ask for agreement that it's OK.
Ultimately, request an updated contest stating you're wfh. With occasional office attendance as required.

Do you drive?

I think in balance yabu. But it depends on your contract, if it states your office is your usual place of work then you cant include travel time to your office in working hours. If they change your contract so your normal workplace is your home then I think it would be fair to include travel time within your working hours, especially if they request you go in ,for a meeting for example, half way through the day.
Its a bit of a grey area you need to talk to your manager, I think this is going to become an increasingly common question.

When you were working in the office you commuted 10 days over a two week period.

But now we know a lot of us can do our jobs adequately from hone. Why should we commute? Why should we spend our own time commuting when we’re not being paid for it? Why waste our own time?

Your role isn't contractually wfh, it's choice to wfh. This is significant

I dont choose to wfh. I am told to wfh by my employer. I am permitted to attend the office if needed (me or them needing), but we are told not to be there otherwise.

So essentially you are traveling from your place of work, which happens to be your home, to go to a meeting. If I’m traveling like that then it isn’t a commute.
I would use that time to make calls, or do emails if I was catching a train.

If you work from home (which it sounds like you do) then your travelling time to meet colleagues/clients/stakeholders during the work day is part of your working time. You cannot be commuting if your work base is home. That's how HMRC see it anyway.

You should be counting your commute at all. Did you cunt your commute pre covid, if no, then your travel times time outside of your work hours

You need to know if you are formally home based. My office is 4hrs away and I was home based long before Covid. I go to the office roughly once a month (pre-Covid) and my travel time is work time although normally I drive down after work the previous evening, stay over at works expense and then work a slightly shorter day before driving home. I do put my travel hours on my timesheet but I’m not paid hourly so it doesn’t get me extra pay.

If your contracted work location is your home then travel time into the office is part of your working hours.

Only someone who is a bit…. Iffy about what they’re doing and / or how they’re perceived at work would worry about this.

Of course the OP has repeated multiple times that she is very comfortable with what she’s doing and she’s absolutely kick-ass at her job

But still…. Only someone not quite so sure…

@Sometimesfraught82 that's quite true ...

she’s absolutely kick-ass at her job

Oh fgs.

[quote cinammonbuns]@JediGnot that completely depends on her contract.[/quote]
Maybe. Are you sure that a company can contract that a usual place of work is different from the place where they usually work?

For office jobs the hours tend to be - say - 9-5.30 with one hour for lunch. Your "day" is 9-5.30 plus commute.

If you work from home usually, then your day is 9-5.30.

If the commute is one hour each way and they want you in a one hour meeting at noon, your boss can't say today your day is 8-6.30 as you'll be wasting two hours of work time because we have told you to come here and not stay at your usual place of work.

IMHO.

Lol good luck with that!

[quote LateAtTate]@Sometimesfraught82 that's quite true ...[/quote]
It is, isn’t it

* I must complete mine, and to an excellent standard*

So you ate presumably completing to an “excellent standard”!

I see your point.

If I was commuting to work, I'd get there in time to do a full day. If they asked me to turn up for an 11am meeting though, I couldn't exactly teleport there! It would be two hours out of my day.

In theory, it should make no difference where I spend those two hours though - to work 9 - 5 I would leave at 8, and get home at 6. To commute to an 11am meeting, I could start WFH at 8am, and finish at 6 with two hours driving and a meeting in the middle. It's no different, though I see why it feels different.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

Your role isn't contractually wfh, it's choice to wfh. This is significant

I dont choose to wfh. I am told to wfh by my employer. I am permitted to attend the office if needed (me or them needing), but we are told not to be there otherwise.

That statement contradicts your opening post As of April this year, my employer has formally introduced a "work when, where and how you like" policy

And with that, you're wfh as a choice. And no contractual change regarding your place of work, so commuting time remains yours.

And with that, you're wfh as a choice

Not while they are also telling us to stay away from the office.

Yabu if your contract specifies your office as your place of work. They are paying you to work your full hours.

You need to get childcare for that time (just as you did before, presumably).

Your whole series of posts reads like you have got used to life without the cost and hassle of childcare and are now trying to justify why you shouldnt have to give that up.

Be really careful about working flexibly without childcare in place. Most employers require that you have childcare to fully cover your working hours, and while your current manager may tolerate your approach now, if there's ever a need to reduce headcount you could find they quickly use this an excuse against you.

I agree that it matters whether your place of work is contractually the office or if it is now home. I should imagine most people's contracts still state that they work in the office 9-5 every day even though that is not currently the case and nor will it be in the future.

However, what if your office has downsized as a result of covid and there is no longer the option for people to work in the office as before even if they wanted to? You then become obliged to work from home as there isn't a desk for you anymore at the office. In that case, I feel employment contracts should change the base place of work to home and then travelling to the office for a meeting becomes work time.

Why should we commute? Why should we spend our own time commuting when we’re not being paid for it? Why waste our own time?

Because it's your choice to live a long way from your place of work, if one is specified in your contract. You know when you accept the job where it is based. The employer should not have to allow people who opt to live 2 hours away to simply work fewer hours than people who sensibly live closer to work.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Yabu if your contract specifies your office as your place of work. They are paying you to work your full hours.

You need to get childcare for that time (just as you did before, presumably).

Your whole series of posts reads like you have got used to life without the cost and hassle of childcare and are now trying to justify why you shouldnt have to give that up.

Be really careful about working flexibly without childcare in place. Most employers require that you have childcare to fully cover your working hours, and while your current manager may tolerate your approach now, if there's ever a need to reduce headcount you could find they quickly use this an excuse against you.

OP's desired outcome is quite vague. As she's still near enough to the office to pop in for specific things, and her manager is happy with her work - why does it matter whether commuting counts as work time or not if nobody's monitoring her by the hour? It would be different if she wanted to move further away because of the new arrangement... Also she vacillates between stating that her job can be 'done 100% from home' but also 'pops into the office for the odd thing'

My job can be done 100% from home. Certain facilities in the office building make doing certain tasks easier. Sometimes I go in so that the task is done quicker/easier. I dont have to. Indeed, I haven't had that option until recently as they didnt even allow short drop ins during the stricter lockdown.

I think this is comparable to having a medical appointment during the working day. What is your employers policy on a doctors appointment during the day, when you are at work before AND after the appointment? Do you have to make up that time? If you do then it’s probably not reasonable to count your travel time to the middle of the day meeting. If you are not expected to make up the hours then I think it’s reasonable to count the travel time
Op is asking about a specific circumstance, a meeting in the middle of the working day, when she cannot be in the office for the full day as that is not what her employer wants and where she can potentially work from home either side of the meeting

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz You've said that before and that's fine.
The question is why you think that the time you take to travel the office (as determined by you, not being 'summoned into a meeting') counts as work time? If you live near enough to pop in and then get back home to do some more work it's not a huge commute is it?
Presumably by the same logic someone who lives 3 hours away can pop into the office to do a single report (which is what you said you do), and then go back home, and then say they were at work for the whole 7 hours for a 1 hour task. Which doesn't seem logical.
Again in practice if you get your work done it doesn't matter but in principle it's easy to see how it can be abused.
Also the other thing is that remote workers can't choose when they'd like to go in - they'll be at work only if requested by someone else. It's fine to consider a commute 'work' in that case but you seem to want both the flexibility to use office facilities and the perks of full remoteness.